Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby Nevadablue » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:03 am

Watching... I'm very interested in using servos for things like your door and signals, switches and such. :)
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:32 am

There's a video of it operating the servo (in the boat - the rivets counter nemesis the Yellow Peril) here:

http://youtu.be/wfGsPrrr23Y

The clicks are me switching the toggle switch. Lots of experiments to do yet, but its looking good for operation of all sorts of things.

I'm thinking of reed switch operation, with a door or doors opening to allow a train in, then closing behind it. Too much to do!!
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:01 pm

Some progress, but not a lot.

It turns out that the local model shop closed a long time ago (I feel fairly guilty about this, having been away from modelling anything for a good few years) and the nearest one is 50 miles or so away. Thankfully the bloke who owns it is sound, and is happy to post bits. I'm planning a visit to him in the next couple of weeks.

The micro servo to operate the door has arrived, and a prototype door and mechanism is under construction.

I've also been finishing the initial wiring (it all works!!) as well as wiring a 009 project on another of the four original bits of ply and have rebuilt the Mighty Command Box of Power into Mk 1a format for increased power output and the option to recharge mobile phones.

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:32 pm

Time for a brief update.

No major progress to report on the layout itself, however the proposed controller design and the Mk1a Mighty Command Box of Power have come on leaps and bounds. As both are more or less essential to my ability to drive trains and make things work generally, the last few weeks have not been wasted.

Controller so far (lid not shown):

rsz_12015-04-06_155311.jpg
rsz_12015-04-06_155311.jpg (57.08 KiB) Viewed 3918 times


and the top of the power source (two more switches & lucky green LED still to add):

rsz_2015-04-10_171303.jpg
rsz_2015-04-10_171303.jpg (65.32 KiB) Viewed 3918 times
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:36 pm

It is getting there. sorry you had to deal with illness, it does kind of gum up the works.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Sat May 09, 2015 6:54 pm

Nothing terribly Gn15 to report, however the power supply box is nearly finished (its has been documented on ngrm-online.com).

Once this is done - it has taken forever, and still needs another week or so - I can finish the baseboard woodwork and think about laying track :D

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:32 pm

So, after far too long of a break, there is some progress to report.

The original Carl Arendt design uses a 90 degree crossing inside the shed. This is an Atlas HO settrack part, and should be available from Gaugemaster here in the UK. Despite placing an order in April, I've heard nothing from them (and admittedly haven't followed it up, either), so found this on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331252176754? ... EBIDX%3AIT

and ordered two, as it will probably be a useful thing to have in the bits box.

As well, I've started making a cutting table for extruded foam using a hot wire, which will enable me to accurately cut the "ground" for this project. Once this is finished, I also need to make a rail bender, then I can think about finally laying the track.

A couple of options for motive power are winking at me from Shapeways, but more of that later.

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:54 am

Atlas' track production was really scrambled for a time due to shakeups and happenings in production businesses over in China. Glad something was able to be acquired.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby rue_d_etropal » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:52 am

I am wary of using Atlas track now, as I have had problems running some items through it, in particular Fleischmann Magic Train locos. Even older Lima ran OK, so I replaced the Atlas crossing with a similar Bachmann one and no problems with that. Not sure why the Atlas one is a problem, but possibly they are using some of the same standards as on their code 83 track. The Bachmann track is now only supplied with a grey ballast base, but this can be removed, as it is the old Bachmann track underneath. This is still nickle silver track, not sure why they initially only did the steel track in the Underground Ernie sets.
I have not looked closely at the various 90 degree crossings. I think one might only have insulated plastic rails in middle so look carefully. Alternatively if you want a small wagon turntable I have my 3D printed ones.
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:24 pm

Willow Creek - thanks for the kind words.

Simon - thanks for the comments, and apologies for my slow reply. Work has been hectic for the last while and no progress has been made.

The Atlas crossings do indeed have a fair bit of insulation (2- 3 mm from memory as they aren't to hand) at the crossing, and will bear testing before the track is finally laid. The look isn't terribly important as this crossing is inside a building at the back.

Your wagon turntable and track system are of considerable interest to me, and will be featuring in a future project or two!
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:08 pm

The cutting table for the extruded foam "ground" is now more or less operational, after long delays due to work commitments and other projects.

All being well I'll get the aperture cut for the turntable next week, and trial fit the landscape to see how it all looks in place. This will lead on to detailed planning for the various buildings, as well as the above board wiring runs.

Good to see some progress at last.

Happy New Year to everyone!

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:29 pm

Right then... FINALLY this is under way again. The extruded foam cutting table is now finished, and working well.

So, the piece of foam cut a long, long time ago to make the "ground" for this one will be trimmed to shape on Saturday, and I'll get the well cut for the turntable too. I've laid out the basics of the track (its currently Hornby OO which hasn't been Gn15'd yet) to get the feel of it. It looks like this:

** Picture lost due to the PhotoBucket debacle **

without the 180 degree curve at the right hand side, which isn't made yet. I've still to make a railbender, but am intending to get on to that at the weekend too, thanks to some rollers I found in a skip attached to some scrap aluminium last week.

The foam has factory cut square edges at the left side and rear, so I'm going to use the back left corner as a datum point for everything to refer to. The front edge (thanks to me cutting it with a bread knife) is on a slant, and is around 1/4" too narrow at the top edge. To make this into a feature rather than a mistake, I'm going to extend the ground cover over this edge, and put in a drain pipe or two, perhaps a small culvert over at the right, and various odds and ends of rubbish in the undergrowth.

The right hand edge needs a sliver (again around 1/4") off it, so the foam table will do its first paying job trimming it.

At last I can see some progress here, and I must admit am very happy and a little excited to be moving on.

Les
Last edited by lesmond on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:55 pm

So, off to work (in the pouring rain :D ) this morning, to cut the foam to its final shape and start to see where things are going to go.

I had to make the trim to the right hand edge freehand due to newly found limitations in the cutting table (discussed in the Narrow Gauge Forum on my "workbench" thread, but easily overcome.

The end result is far from perfect, but as its going to be hidden behind a piece of thin ply doesn't really matter very much. I'm not happy with it, but not unhappy enough to scrap it and start again. This would set the project back an awful lot, so I'll put up with it knowing it can't be seen.

It looks like this:

** Picture lost due to the PhotoBucket debacle **

but at least it fits.

With this done, thoughts went to the positioning of the turntable. In the original article, Carl Arendt mentions a 5" radius curve. I've just room for this (the depth of my model is 13 1/2", the original is 14") if the turntable comes right to the front edge, as seen here:

** Picture lost due to the PhotoBucket debacle **

If I take it back half an inch, it looks like this:

** Picture lost due to the PhotoBucket debacle **

but tightens the curve considerably. I'm not sure if this is a good idea, as 4.5" radius is do-able, but very tight.

I'm going to have another look at it in the morning, but the current thinking is to keep it to the edge. I'll decide and cut the well for it tomorrow, then start properly marking out the track bed and locations of the buildings and scenic features.

The first member of staff (Jim, the mechanic) has been recruited, and is seen here pondering the work still to do:

Image20160110_121502 by lesmond2009, on Flickr

Work permitting, this week should see a fair bit of progress. The interesting thing about such a small model is that everything depends on everything else, the ground goes in, then the track, but the buildings need to be at least mocked up to check clearances, the wiring, speakers and lights have to be hidden somewhere - its all related. Good fun!

Les
Last edited by lesmond on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:59 pm

Off to work today, with Leanne (the long suffering mrs) in tow as we'd other bits to do after playtime :D

After some careful measuring, coffee, looking at the thing, more measuring, thinking and talking, the final place for the turntable was marked on the foam, and the cutting table powered on.

The finished job looks like this:

Image20160110_124549 by lesmond2009, on Flickr

cut slowly and carefully by Leanne, so all credit there, where its due.

The cut at the front edge has been mostly filled by a sliver of scrap foam, and will be completed with filler and ground cover when the job is done.

Image20160110_124607 by lesmond2009, on Flickr

There is a shallow "false start" just beside the patch.

The turntable drops neatly into place, shown here sitting on a temporary mount, so a little high and offset to one side, overseen by the resident mechanic (who it turns out is called Pete, not Jim):

Image20160110_125117 by lesmond2009, on Flickr

The mdf top will sit around 1/32" above the base, so that the track is level with the rest of the permanent way. The turntable track length is 4 5/8", so I'm going to make two thin balsa semi circles as a sub base for the top, cut to butt up to the edges of the sleepers of the turntable track at the same level as the sleeper tops. This will give a circular turntable 4 5/8" in diameter, which I will then face with chequer plate plasticard, with a strip up the middle of the track and gaps either side to allow for wheel clearances.

I'll need to make a mount for the turntable as it is considerably shorter than the depth of the well. I've not thought too much about this yet, but will probably use one of the spare mdf circles as the base, bolted through the plywood base using captive bolts in order to allow removal of the turntable unit if required. As it only turns 90 degrees, I may well fit stops to prohibit excess movement, as a full turn will stretch the track feed wires too much. I'll give this a fair bit of thought, though.

The very short length of the turntable will hold one very small locomotive and one wagon, which will lead to some interesting shunting moves when a "long" train of three hoppers arrives at once from the mine. As I'm intending to use 3 link couplers and a pair of tweezers as a shunters pole, operations should take place in more or less real time.

Pete is seen here wondering how its all going to work in practice:

** Picture lost due to the PhotoBucket debacle **

I've now also thought of a name for the cat litter mining company, it will be known as:

Practical (or possibly Patent) Odour Obfuscation Products (Feline) Ltd

which sums up the nature of the product rather well.

There really only needs to be one locomotive, but me being me there will probably be a couple at least. I've decided to name these after two of the stray cats which I've fed at work, so we will have a "Lottie" (after Charlotte, my first wee girl and now retired to a comfy back garden) and a "Marvin", after the late, great Starvin' Marvin who now resides in a wee wodden box in my dining room. There may well also be an "Usul", an "Alia" and a "Wee Black One". Time and finances will tell.

To return to something faintly modelling related, the next job is to make mock ups of the various buildings needed from cardboard, to see what works and fits, and to check clearances before I start to make anything "proper". Work permitting I'll get a start at this through the week, and the whole project should really start to come to life. I've a picture of it in my minds eye, so will have to see if I can translate this into reality. Thankfully a scale of 1:24 opens up a lot of 3D printed bits and pieces from Shapeways :D .

Sorry for a long post, I'll be quiet for a bit now and get some modelling done...

Les
Last edited by lesmond on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby docnjoj » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:13 pm

That is a neat install, Les. I am trying to figure out how to use my Atlas HO powered turntable, since it is about 10" in diameter. That is way too big.
More after track gets laid.
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby chris stockdale » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:26 pm

St. Alia of the Knife?

Good to know there's at least one other Dune fan in here apart from me. But if it's Usul surely Chani would be a more logical choice?

(Please excuse the off topic post) :roll:

Cheers

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:42 am

Hi Stockers,

The David Lynch film was awesome, despite its many detractors.

I'd not thought of Chani (now I need another loco!) :D

Usul & Alia got their names due to their bright blue kitten eyes, which is a bit obscure for a lot of people. Glad there's more than me around that gets it...

They were captured and rehomed at seven weeks, as a yard with busy traffic is no place for kittens. Their mother and father have since been "done" and will live out their days in my warehouse.

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:53 am

Trains, cats, sci-fi, kitbashing, bodging, what more could a person want in a web forum :D
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby chris stockdale » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:13 pm

Les,

Pleased you're doing your bit for a bunch of furry purrers - we have our quota here in the wilds of Shropshire.

I quite like the Dune film, I also seem to recall half watching the series which was even better.

I spent plenty of time reading and rereading the books back in 1977 when I was supposed to be revising for A levels... :oops: :roll:

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:28 pm

now I can tie up Les with the questions he asked me on Facebook. Much better to talk here.
Interestingly the designs I am doing to make a door mechanism using 3D printed, evolved out of my design of a working wagon turntable. Hopefully I will have something simple to use very soon, as I know Les is interested. No need for an fancy electronics or servos, everything with be 'finger' digital to operate.
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:38 pm

Good to make contact here, Simon - far better than on Facebook.

I'll be keen to see the door design.

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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:23 pm

I don't want to give too much away at the moment. One of m samples arrives tomorrow, it is an earlier version, but is still useful and I ill use it to demonstrate system, I hope. I have several variations, but it should not make much different which is used. The door is slightly different because of the offset centre point for rotation, to simulate the door being hinged to framework.
Assuming I am happy with the mechanism, I can push ahead with the doors and door frame. I think this is possibly best scale for operating doors etc, but it still could be done in smaller scales. Mechanism is standard to all scales, which means doors will become a bit chunky in smaller scales. I think the more operating features that can be put in the better, and it shows the advantage of bigger scales.

Les, looking at your plan, most of it could be done using my 3D printed track. I seem to remember you , or maybe someone else over in NI, saying model shops were very scarce over there, but as long as you can get hold of code 100 rail(second hand flexi is best source), then it is easy to build up track. The Gn15 curves are 10cm radius. You could have even used one of my wagon turntables(no need to cut hole).
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:45 pm

Very wise to not give too much away until ready, Simon. 1/2" scale is great for biggish mechanisms, as there are usually bigger structures to hide things in.

I didn't know (up to a couple of minutes ago) or had forgotten more likely, that you produced a Gn15 curve - this is pretty much what I'm after, and I've downloaded the template for a proper look at the weekend. It will certainly save me a lot of work on a very visible part of the track.

Would it be possible or viable to produce a straight section with sleepers rather than the stone surface?

I've had a bee in my bonnet about using a redundant hard drive mechanism to make a turntable for a long time, and have scratched that particular itch with what I've made. I also have the option to make it rotate at 5400 rpm with an appropriate speed controller :D

Les
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby Nevadablue » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:13 am

I WILL pay 10 bucks to see that 5400 rpm turntable running with a loco on it AND then stop and allow the dizzy loco to depart. :mrgreen:
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Re: Variant of the Carl Arendt SAP Line

Postby lesmond » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:16 am

I'll see what I can do - are temporary adhesives or securing straps allowed :D :D ?

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