Turnouts

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b1gy1n
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Turnouts

Postby b1gy1n » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:15 pm

Hi thought i'd post a pic (with emry's help TA),of turnout i'm three quaters of the way building for my layout,which has a small wagon turntable at the far end of this turnout.

construction details are as follows wood sleepers,rails spiked,rail code 100 fb,and will be single blade turnout,similar to tram style turnouts.

*Image :lol: :lol: :lol:
regards Marc
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Postby Simon Andrews » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:56 pm

Hi Marc,

That looks good 8) Any details on the planned layout :?: Gn15 :?: On30 :?: passager :?: industrial :?:

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re turnout

Postby b1gy1n » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:26 pm

hi simon,the planned layout will be Gn15,it will be Industrial-ish,similar to Roy Link's Crowsnest Tramway,which is a triangle formation based on a 90 degree triangle with a turntable at the 90 degree for turning loads round.

If we find out why i cant post pics ,so that i can then post i'll stick a pic up.

regards Marc
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Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:18 am

Looks really good Marc. Will be interested to see how you do the switch rail with a single bladed turnout, not something I have considered before.
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Postby Dave Westall » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:57 pm

Marc,

That looks very interesting. What are you using for the rail spikes :?:


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Turnouts - spikes

Postby b1gy1n » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:21 pm

Hi Dave,
The spikes are what i picked up a few years ago from the states,there from Micro engineering,theres i think about 1000 in a bag,and they are not expensive,they were bought for some On30 flexi track which you add your own rail,it came in 8inch lengths.

regards Marc :D
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Turnouts - single blade

Postby b1gy1n » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:27 pm

Hi Steve thanks for the praise,the single blade will be operated by wire in tube via a remote peco turnout motor,due to the base board been solid 1/2 inch ply with 1/4 inch cork.But i might change and fit a pivotal blade like tram turnouts similar to the ones in the states (model form).

regards Marc
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Postby michael » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:34 am

Marc I am also curious as to your progress on this turnout, I will be following along. What is the wood that you are using? The slepers look very thin how wel are the spikes holding the rails?
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Re: Turnouts

Postby ian_g_griffiths » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:06 pm

Hi,
Forgive me for being thick. I can see the intenton of this turnout and how the switch rail acts as a running rail or check rail, depending on the required direction, but where is the pivot point? Also, can you provide any information for the profiling of the switch rail and the mating surface on the through running rail?

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Re: Turnouts

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:10 pm

ian_g_griffiths wrote:... but where is the pivot point?


Don't know about that side of the pond, but over here, specifically HO, there are usde a lot turnouts which have no specific pivot point for the points :arrow: the rails are solid to the frog and bend when points are thrown.

Sometimes the point rails are not only solid to the frog, they are part of the frog, which is insulated from running rails past it, and whichever point touches the running rail thusly energises frog to that polarity.
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Re: Turnouts

Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:19 pm

Willow Creek Traction wrote:Don't know about that side of the pond, but over here, specifically HO, there are usde a lot turnouts which have no specific pivot point for the points :arrow: the rails are solid to the frog and bend when points are thrown.


That is ok on longer turnouts, but not on short tight radius ones, you really need a pivot. There is no enough flex in the short lengths of rail used to allow it to bend enough without a lot of pressure on the switch rails. Pivots really are the best way to go for long lasting and reliable operation.
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Turnouts - sleepers

Postby b1gy1n » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:27 pm

Michael the sleepers are i think bass wood got them from WH hobbys sometime ago,the spikes are from Micro Engineering and they are glued in place with araldite,as they are pushed into the pre drilled hole.

hope that answers you queery.

regards Marc
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Turnouts - single blade

Postby b1gy1n » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:45 pm

hi ian,the blade is filed by hand to about half its thickness and corresponding area removed on the opposite side,Steve's right it should have a pivot it might yet still get one,most of the ones i have built were in code 75 and the end of the running rail had a wiper of phosphur bronze.
I have been playing with the point and its a little stiff,so i will be fitting a pivot point,this will be on all the singles aswell as normal 2 blade points.

have two methods one is to use a fish plate/joiner the other is to drill a hole in sleeper insert brass tube with a wire insert attached to rail.

will and do both styles (apology for semi commercial plug)

regards Marc :)
marc

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Postby Albert » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:06 am

Hi Marc,

I wonder where you found the drawing for your fine turnout? Can I get a copy and are there also drawings for curved turnouts? :wink:

Thanks in advance,

Albert

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turnout templates

Postby b1gy1n » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:00 pm

Hi Albert,
The templates are an adaption from SMP tramway points,there are a left,right and wye,i have designed a 3 way and currently doing a double slip.If you are after a specific curved turnout matching the radius of this then let me know and i can draw something up for a small charge.

regards Marc.
marc

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turnouts - single blade - sprung?

Postby HansvdL » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:03 pm

Marc, you mentioned that you've built turnouts with phosphor bronze point ends (or so I understood). One of your turnout pictures on www.gn15.info (see here) seems to show one of those, is that right?

The November Small Layout Scrapbook of Carl Arendt, with its article about the Bekonscot railway, which uses sprung points (turnouts), made me wonder how such sprung points might be constructed in model form.
I'm wondering if your single blade turnout design with phosphor bronze point end could be used as a sprung point. I like the idea of using a flexible wiper at the end of the point blade, because it would appear to reduce the risk of derailing when the blade is forced open by a train approaching from the "wrong" direction.
We're so used to seeing two-bladed turnouts, that I must confess that a single blade design is new to me. However, it looks well suited for a sprung turnout, in which trains approaching from the toe end always travel through the turnout in the same direction (so that the missing blade is not needed). Is this correct?

Hope this is not too confusing...

Hans

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turnouts-sprung points

Postby b1gy1n » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:54 pm

Hi Hans,
referance sprung points /single blade,phosphur bronze wiper they might not work well in Gn15 due to size and weight of train,single sprung blade would be better,and your right in the method of operation,the blade can be either biased for straight running or going thru the turnout,and it basically consists of a rod going thru the rail,attached to the blade,with on the outside of the rail a spring held back by a washer and nut,if i can find the drawing ,email me off list and ill send it on.

regards Marc
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turnouts

Postby Coo » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:10 am

Hans wrote
made me wonder how such sprung points might be constructed in model form


Gnot exactly a sprung point but this modification performs the same
function.

http://www.geocities.com/loggingloco1/dctramway/points.htm

I have performed the surgery on a Peco Point and it works as advertised.
First Time :shock: :shock: Not through skill, just lucky :(
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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:43 am

Hi all,
the Peco point modifications definitely work as advertised. I have driven the Dynamite Canyon Tramway :D It used to live in the next suburb.
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Postby docnjoj » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:42 pm

That reverse loop is absolutely brilliant! I think it woul work with my old cheep atlas ho switches. His method for handlaying track is quite kool also!
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Postby docnjoj » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:54 pm

I wonder if I couldnt wire in a reverse loop detector and make the operation comletely automatic? There would be no need for switch machines on the 2 reverse loops, and the layout could run unattended!
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Postby Oztrainz » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:55 am

Hi Doc,
I can't see why not - hide a magnet either on the loco or on a trailng car close to the loco and hide a magnetic reed switch between the tracks in the short stop section and use that to trigger a relay to change your polarity. There will be a momentary "glitch" as the relay fires but the direction of rotation of your electric motor does NOT change. Therfore a flywheel or similar should smooth this out and provide enough rotational inertia to keep the motor rotating almost at the same speed until the volts come back. Provided you start your train travelling forwards on the track between the 2 reverse loops, the system will sort itself out at the first reverse loop.

The magnetic reed switch idea is just about bulletproof. I have used this for years to operate relays contolling signal indications on a coffee table layout so that I alway have a "green" as the train runs around the track circle. I run fixed consists with the magnet under the first car behind the loco. This means that the loco has passed the signal before it changes to red.

I have heard reports of optical detectors being "spooked" by extraneous shadows. Infra red detectors should work as well.

I hope that this helps
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Postby docnjoj » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:29 pm

Thanks John! I use a reed switch and magnet to activate motor cut off on my electric assist bike! I think I understand the principle, so its off to Radioshack for parts. Ill bet all the electrics will be about 10 USD. Another project gets shoved to the front burner! I really need that Lister to show up, so I have waaaaay too much to do!
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Postby docnjoj » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:46 pm

Hey oztrainz! Duh! My electronics brain just woke up with a question! How does the relay change polarity? Do I need to go into the MRC transformer and attach it to the reverse switch! My relay has 5 poles. 2 for the coil, and an NC, NO and common! Help the electronically ungnowledgable! Thanks in advance!
Doc

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Postby Oztrainz » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:41 am

Hi Doc,
the relay I used was a Fleischmann unit part #6956 with 9 contacts - It has 2 sets of contacts switched by the coil. Any similar 12V relay with 2 sets of contacts controlled by the coil should work. Some of the automotive stuff might be worth a look at if Tandy/RadioShack don't have this type of relay. It should be a latching type relay, ie one that will stay in position once the coil has been energised rather than one in which returns to a center-off position when the coil current is removed.

Use one output from the speed controller/transformer(+ve) as the input to one set of contacts, use other wire (-ve) from the speedcontroller/transformer as the input to the other set of contacts. One wire from the same side of each set of contacts goes to one of the short stop sections, (remember to cross over the set of leads going to the other short stop section), 3 for the coil - center common/top to 1 reverse loop reed switch/bottom to other reed switch, so there are 9 contacts all up.

The Fleischmann unit uses the 16VAC supply from your transformer to provide power to the coils via the reed switch. Because the reed switch is a momentary contact, you should not cook the coils because the current is only going to the coils when the magnet on the loco/wagon causes the reed switch to close.

See http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLEISCHMANN-6956-3-x-3way-RELAY-BOXED-MINT_W0QQitemZ220171402561QQihZ012QQcategoryZ122570QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting for an example of the Fleischmann relay that is currently up on e-bay.

I hope that this helps clarify things, rather than confuse things.
John Garaty
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