Exhibition Presentation

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Prof Klyzlr
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:24 am

Dear Barry,

but I will ask them this question, would you go to an exhibition where every layout was displayed in the same manner, and everything that isn't part of the presentation hidden, including the operators?


Funny you should ask that Barry. The majority of show invitations to exhibitions on the eastern seaboard of Aust now include a block of text something like the following...

"...All layouts should be presented as clean and tidy, with floor-level skirting. All additional equipment should be stored out-of-view..."

So, Yes, the kind of "presentation tweaking" we are talking about IS fairly commonplace here. And furthur, yes, people <are> coming to see a hall full of "similarly presented" layouts. :wink:

If the average "ancillary presentation" details are universally "up to par",
(IE the playing field is effectively "levelled"),

then the emphasis IS thrown back on the modelling to delineate between a "standout" and a "nice" layout... :wink:

I would also have to admit that I personally disagree with the

"Good modelling + bad "attention to presentation detail" = no harm, no foul"

comment.

Sure, a "hardcore modeller" may be able to overlook the pair of Tritton workbenchs/sawhorses holding the layout up, etc

as long as the class lights on the loco are exactly 3" either side of the buffer pads,
and the operation doesn't require "the hand of god" to keep the show rolling...

but in the mind of the exhibition manager, that "hardcore modeller" person makes up maybe 30% of the total show demographic over a 3 day show...
(IE the other 60+% will consider such a presentation "half baked",
not matter how accurate the class lights are... :wink: )

It's interesting, over many years of exhibiting,
I have noticed trends in the daily demographics of each show here.

For example, Saturday at the NSW Hurstville show is "Modellers day",
so get your most mouth-watering models out on the track, and keep everything at dead scale speed...

On Sunday however, it's "family day",so you can afford to be a bit more "relaxed" about what loco runs on which train, stopping for photo-opportunities is always welcome, and train speeds can be a bit more "flexible" as the crowd ebbs and flows...

As for Monday, the 3rd day of a 3 day show can have some of the exhibitors getting "stir crazy", so you may see all manner of consists and operational things occuring, if you've got your eyes open... :wink:

Anyway, we're getting off the original thread topic, but in answer to your question Barry, the answer, at least here in Eastern Australia, is YES...
Happy Modelling,
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:39 am

Dear John,

No, not "Unusual" by any stretch. I suspect you are simply finding your preferred viewing height.

Of course, "Overpass footbridge" or "3rd storey window" layout viewpoints tend to be an occupational hazard of the "taller modeller" :wink:

Maybe it's because of the NG prototypes I prefer to model from here in Aust, but the "natural viewpoint" is usually no more than 6-8 feet above ground level. There are no footbridges, there are no structures to climb,
(except maybe for the nearby ironbark :wink: ), and none of the punters that look at my layouts today ever chased Longworth's or Lahey's tramways in a Bell JetRanger helicopter.

Ergo, if I stand any chance of accurately portraying period Aussie Logging to both "average punters",

AND the very knowledgeable granddaughter of Jim Longworth (owner and operator of Longworth's tramways),

then I'd better do my darndest to make it a "near scale eye level" viewing presentation...

PS: I streamed thru the RMWeb thread. However, I see what feels like more friendly and constructive advice being given here,
let alone a wider variety of viewpoints,
(pun not intended :wink: ),
from a wider geographical and prototypical range of experiences...
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Postby michael » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:48 am

I read through a lot of the RM web stuff, and this thread and I have to agree that you cannot please everyone. I think that this is what makes going to exhibitions interesting. The variety. If everything were perfect for everyone there would be no point of departure for conversation, or viewing.

I do have to agree that the exhibition organizers have a difficult job striking the right balance for their demographic.

But you know I think that we all need to lighten up. TRY Exhibiting with Bombs dropping on you.

We are all so lucky that we can even contemplate building models let alone exhibiting them.... I just wanted to say something about the unfortunate folks on this small planet we call home.

Having vented that
I hope everyone has a healthy and prosperous new year with their families and loved ones.
Regards Michael
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Postby DCRfan » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:25 am

I'm sure there is a remote release on one end of the Nine Mile saw. All complaints will be swiftly delt with. 'Please stand on the spot marked with red X''. :twisted:

I'm glad the issue of appropiate height has been brought up 8) Every year our local exhibition issues a pre-exhibition newsletter. Every year the same 'the most common complaint is inapproiate height so kids can't see'. Must admit my silent response is 'so what', I'm not targeting children with my content, subjects or display.

The organsiers should realise not all punters turn up with kids and guess who pays the entry fee - its the tall people :wink:
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Postby Gavin Sowry » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:22 am

:D Wow, this thread has really taken off...
Let me clarify a point I was making re backscreens... not backscenes.
Open or closed fiddle yards, take your fancy, but what I was trying to get across was 'a screen of some sorts' that sets off the 'entire' exhibit, thus cutting out the next door neighbour's washing etc.
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:40 am

Dear Paul,

My apologies, I hope I haven't come off as overbearing or "over-enthusiastic". It's just that this has been the "bread and butter"part of my modelling life for over 15 years now. I build models and layouts at home, primarily for the purpose of my own learning and enjoyment.

However, each completed layout has subsequently gone to multiple shows,
and usually come away with not only the "Exhibitors Choice"
(as judged by your peers, good litmus test of the "Modelling" bit)

but also the "Public Choice"
(as judged on exit by the punters)

These are more often than not, NOT Modellers per se,

so the "hyper realism" of a P?? model, scene, or contest winner is largely lost on them.
(This is where a small number of un-obtrusive "Can You Find???" or Info boards are invaluable! It's called "Educating your Audience"! :wink: )

That's not to say as modellers that we shouldn't "aim high",
(Check the signature panel )

but it is worth recognizing that generally speaking,
there are "modeller's layouts",

IE subject matter and layout theme appeals to knowledgeable modellers, will put a "non-train punter" to sleep,

and there are "show layouts",

IE plenty of detail and "things of interest" to keep the punters amused long after their fish-like attention spans <should have> waned,
but based on a proto-enough premise, and with a level of modelling,
that will keep even a seasoned modeller interested. It is this "selection of a layout's Raison d etre" that can Make or Break a potential "show layout"...

However, these high-demographic percentage non-modellers DO know when they see a layout which:

- contains "high detail" modelling
(NB that they will often pick "missing details" which we modellers are not aware of. I once saw a amazing town scene, and overheard a 5 y/o girl say "but mummy, where is the letter box for each house?" )

- everything "fits"in the scene visually/aesthetically
(This covers the arrangement of structures in the scene,
colors of various items,
a consistent weathering job accross models in the scene such that they appear to "belong together",
etc etc)

- the layout doesn't look "un-kempt" or untidy
(speaks to the hidden staging yards, layout skirts and signs, errant repair tools "looking messy", crew "relief area", etc)

- ditto for the layout operators
(oh, the stories.... :twisted: )

- the operators are helpful, friendly, engaging, and knowledgable
(NOTHING promotes the hobby more than spending 5 minutes talking with an enthusiastic punter, chronologicaly young or old, and genuinely taking the time to answer their questions.... :idea: )

- the trains appear to run reliably/smoothly at "appropriate" pace
(Again, the punters wouldn't know a scale 10mph from 20 mph,
but they DO recognize when a Class A Shay does a impression of a BulletTrain,and that "summat just ain't right 'bout that...")

BTW, "Nine Mile"didn't have a sawmill, but it did have a working 2 drum Harman "Pair of 8s" winch, with fully sync'd sound, operating a Aussie/NZ style highlead logging haulage system.

Image
Last edited by Prof Klyzlr on Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:58 am

Dear Gavin,

RE "backscenes" VS "BackScreens"

Ah, understood! :idea:

I guess that having avoided the "flat domino" module myself, I've never had to face the issue of <not> having a backdrop/backscene.

Furthur, I've never had a backdrop/viewblock that didn't rise up above the punters average eye level, and thus effectively form it's own "backscreen"...

My first completed show layout, Broughton Vale Tramway,
http://www.geocities.com/loggingloco1/BVT

was set at 1350mm track height, and had a centralviewblock that rose another nearly 18" above that. (IE total viewblock height approx 1800mm)

This meant that a 6' gent <might> be able to see the top of the head of another 6' gent, as they stood on each side of the 2' "deep" layout,
(NB that allowing for 2' operator aisles, the 2 gents would be standing a minimum of 6' away from each other in a straight line).

Check the lead pic on
http://www.geocities.com/loggingloco1/B ... epage.html

Can you see the "V" in the top of the scenery, where the cutting curves around on itself?

The photo is taken from a low angle, but even with the viewers eye level another 200mm ABOVE track height, the profile of that cutting was <carefully engineered> :evil: so that it was Impossible to "see thru the cutting" around the corner to the adjacent scene, no matter what angle the punter looked at it...

I guess what I'm getting at is,
significant Layout Height + even modest viewblock/backscene = effective "BackScreen" :D
Happy Modelling,

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Prof Klyzlr

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Postby DCRfan » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:25 am

[quote="Prof Klyzlr"]Dear Paul,

My apologies, I hope I haven't come off as overbearing or "over-enthusiastic".

Is an Aussie overbearing - you are asking a Kiwi for an honest opinion :lol: :lol: You have about the same chance of the truth as if you asked a Tasmanian :wink:

No seriously I agree with all your points. Just wish I could achieve your standards.
Paul

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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:38 am

Dear Paul,

Please don't misunderstand me,
I'm eternally glad there is no "minimum standard" to qualify for the term "Model Railroader" (or "Railway-er" :?: ),

otherwise I'd be out of contention completely... :wink:

I guess this is why I always close with....
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:00 am

...so Gavin,

Has this conversation so far helped your mental ruminations RE layout skirts, backscenes/screens, signs, and presentation overall?

I just jumped back to the "starting post"to make sure we hadn't wandered <too far> off-topic, and had another look at the "example pic" you posted.

Can I respectfully suggest you try some things?

1 - take a picture

OK, so you already have :wink:
now try taking a pic of the layout from the boy's "altitude" or eye level.

Try running a train around,
and note that between the tree, both structures, and the fence,

you already have a pretty effective length of track "backstage" on which the train cannot be seen,
(IE it is already "screened off" from the punter's normal viewing positions)

---> IF the layout is viewed at a <relatively> eye-level height... :wink:

This also speaks to the fact that at "eye level", you have to move L<>R accross the "Front" of the layout, in order to see all of the modelling detail and craftsmanship that is on show.

Example, in the picture shown, I can easily see
- the grey ??? behind the grey engineshed at left,
- Just inside the shed,
- the truck,
- the (cat?) in the window of the Red shed,
- and the bloke checking the status of the "long drop".

Now, review the layout from the Boy's height, and I would suggest that is is near impossible to see all of those things simultaneously, without significant L<>R viewer movement around the layout.

Movement = "dwell time" for the punter, and that means you "hold their interest" longer than the 15 - 30 seconds mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

Furthur, if a small "Can you Find?" board is prompting the viewer to locate given details from one end of the layout to the other, the potential "delay" before a scale-speed train arrives "onscene" is largely mitigated...

NB that this "can't see everything all at once" viewpoint more closely emulates how we and ground-based humans view the 12"/1' scale world... :wink: :idea:

2 - I know you weren't keen initially, but just <try> placing a doublebed flat black sheet over the sawhorses,
and then placing the layout on top.
(NB I picked up a smallstock of SB, DB, and QB sheets during the Christmas madness sales for AUD$8 each! Far less expensive an outlay than virtually any "modelling" investment... :wink: )

Instant "coverage" of the support structure, that can be strategically folded/gaffa-taped/pinned/tucked under the sawhorse feet,

so it doesn't "billow" at the corners.

3 - This one will take the most $$$ outlay and engineering effort,
but I can see something like

- a pair of "inverted T stands",
one either side of the layout as shown in the example pic.
(these could be built so that they could be "folded down to flat" and easily transported down one side of the car, or on the roofracks).

If using aluminium 25mm "qubelok", some excess tube and a sheet of foamcore would be all you would need to build a "banner" style solid sign.

I'd love to hear that this thread has helped you nut thru what may or may-not work for you and your layouts. The above "things to try"are exactly that,

tests that you can quickly "mockup" at home, without having to commit to using them "at the show"...
(and not having to outlay much to perform the test in the first place... :wink: )

Happy New Year to all,
make your NYE resolution to get at least 2 models "off the workbench"... :D
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Postby Glen A » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:13 am

Prof Klyzlr wrote:
(NB I picked up a smallstock of SB, DB, and QB sheets during the Christmas madness sales for AUD$8 each! Far less expensive an outlay than virtually any "modelling" investment... :wink: )


I have picked up black material in rolls for much less.
Try looking at the fabric warehouses. Even the retail shop around the road had 2m wide rolls of black for $1 per metre. It’s thicker than a bed sheet, (so doesn't let light through) and it doesn't fray at the edges when you cut it.
As my layout is less than 1m off the floor, I could cut it in half lengthwise, so a meager NZ$3 gave me 6 metres of layout frontage! Which does all the current layout plus some in reserve for future.

p.s. thanks for fixing up those photos Prof, some great layouts to look at there!

p.p.s. Do you have any more photos of (or links) for Geoff Nott's "Leigh Creek" On3 layout? It looks a real stunner, and I would like to see more close up details. Thanks.
Glen.

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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:34 am

Dear Glen,

Tis true that "material on the roll" is generally cheaper than pre-fab sheets,

although, I've never been able to walk into any "material shop",
and locate the same weight/threadcount/thickness/feel/opacity material "off the roll" consistently, twice in a row... :(

Even if I didn't need any more for <my>layout needs, I'd want to know what it is I was buying,

so that if a show punter asked
"what did you make your layout skirts from?",

I could tell them what to buy, and where to get it... :wink:


However, if I'm looking for "RTR pre-seamed, throw-over drapes",
(as I use regularly for quickly staging trade-show displays, system demonstration rigs, and presenting layouts... :wink: ),

then a decent quality bedsheet works just fine :wink:
(Yep, once again it's "paying for the convienience",
much like RTR models... :wink: )

BTW, I just checked one of my "not yet out-of-packet" Esprit bedsheets/"quick n dirty display drapes",
100% cotton 300 thread count, just for reference...

Furthur, if you are modifying it into a "designed-to-fit layout skirt", you only have to re-hem 2 sides, instead of 4 :wink:

...and any reduction in the ammount of stitching required,
whether manual or machine,
is a good reduction,

esp if it's the modeller themselves forced to exapnd their "modelling skills" by learning this "additional modelling technique"... :lol:

Can I ask, how did you hem/seam your "off-the-roll" skirts?
Did you integrate any weight to ensure they "hung flat"?
How did you attach them to the layout?
(allied question, what finish do you have on your layout facia,
Painted? Carpet? "Other"?)

Gotta admit, I'm intrigued... :wink:

PS: If you haven't found it already, check the layout's here

http://members.optushome.com.au/jdennis/ng_webex.html
A selection of NG Aussie Layouts, inc the "Red Stag",
(related by birth to "Leigh Creek")

Geoff's home HO layout <was> called "Leigh Creek",but ther has since been at least 2 other re-incarnations.I can send pics offlist if you're keen...
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Postby DCRfan » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:07 am

Rather than black cloth what about weed mat?

    It's black
    Not opaque
    Doesn't hold or show creases
    Needs a fair breeze to blow around
    Cheap
    Available in a number of 'heights'
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:40 am

Dear Paul,

Can't say I'd thought of that option, but the gut instinct reaction is,
(based on laying a few rolls of it in the garden)

- shiny :(

the idea is we want the skirts to not only hide the legs,
but also visually <not> draw attention to themselves.

If everything else is <matte> "black" or dark grey,
(as opposed to "shiny" or "gloss")

then the "lit-up layout" will naturally draw viewers eyes to it.
(The original CRT TV monitor design-school used exactly this principle,
as does theatrical stage design).

- while we don't want the skirts to "hold a crease",

we <do> actually need it to form a controlled "corner" at the corner of the module.

Please recheck the images of "Nine Mile" and "Yallah2",
and note the nice tight corner the skirt <naturally> forms,
from module anchor point at the top, down to floor level.
(The weights also assist here. This is engineered default "gravity behaviour").

BTW, a key trick to this is to attach the velcro in sections, NOT as one continuous strip! If you can engineer it such that a "break" in the velcro co-incides with the corner of a module, the material will nicely "fold" around the corner, and not have to deal with the restrictive "bulge" of a velcro-fold... :idea:

- anchor/attachment points

being largely plastic, most forms of "pushpins" or eyelets thru the matting will likely pull thru the edges under the weight,

and most forms of velcro-adhesive,
including hotglue, contact adhesive, araldite, and acc,
will most likely peel straight off under the strain.
(PET plastic is not known for it's "adhesive friendly surface").


I may be very wrong, but I suspect weed matting is best left in the garden...
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Postby Gavin Sowry » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:58 am

Prof Klyzlr wrote:...so Gavin,

Has this conversation so far helped your mental ruminations RE layout skirts, backscenes/screens, signs, and presentation overall?


8) Now, I come clean.... the real purpose of this thread was to stimulate discussion on presentation, and it is good to see at least someone else is thinking on the same planet as myself.

I've been in the exhibition game for 25-30 years now (45, if you count the two I ran as a student at the school gala those many years ago), and was even Exhibits Manager at a few of the shows in the pre Rail-Ex era.

I suppose it may be a generational thing, but I do think that 'presentation standards' (particularly on the shows I get to participate in) have got a bit lax.

One of the skirt tricks I successfully used for a long time, was black building paper, stapled to the wooden fold up legs of the layout (layout is now 'off' the scene). Why, it was free to a good home, and you junked it after ever show.

Haywards was built firstly, without legs, and secondly without any real thought of exhibiting. The 'Workmate' builders trestle was just the ticket... but I just never got around to doing a decent skirt. Stand alone, the setup is reasonable, BUT, after seeing photos of it in an exhibition setting.........
Gavin Sowry

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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:05 am

<Prof carefully removes the fish-hook he bit on so predictably,

and hands Gavin a beer in time-honoured Aussie/NZ unspoken communication,
>

"...well done, you got me..." :wink:
Happy Modelling,

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Postby Gavin Sowry » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:21 am

Prof Klyzlr wrote:<Prof carefully removes the fish-hook he bit on so predictably,

and hands Gavin a beer in time-honoured Aussie/NZ unspoken communication,
>

"...well done, you got me..." :wink:


:lol: Since Aussies wouldn't know what Speights is, make it a VB :!:

Seriously, your comments are very much appreciated, and by others too, hopefully.

P.S. Liked your work in Australian Model Railway Magazine (been getting that for 30 years now). In fact, the very issue (No.254) just happened to be littering my computer room as I set up this diatribe. :wink:
Gavin Sowry

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Postby Glen A » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:38 am

Prof Klyzlr wrote:Dear Glen,

Can I ask, how did you hem/seam your "off-the-roll" skirts?
Did you integrate any weight to ensure they "hung flat"?
How did you attach them to the layout?
(allied question, what finish do you have on your layout facia,
Painted? Carpet? "Other"?)

Gotta admit, I'm intrigued... :wink:

PS: If you haven't found it already, check the layout's here

http://members.optushome.com.au/jdennis/ng_webex.html
A selection of NG Aussie Layouts, inc the "Red Stag",
(related by birth to "Leigh Creek")


Thanks for the photos you sent me.

I must have been really lucky with the material I got. Because I didn't need to hem it at all. It doesn't fray at the edges (well hasn't yet :wink: ) and I haven't had to weight it either. Painted mdf is the facia board, and I use drawing pins to attach the skirt up into the bottom of the layout.
Its not perfect, but then I haven't finished the final config of the modules yet either. My wifes time to hem it would be worth much more than the $3 it cost to buy new material and redo the entire layout every time I make a change in modules :wink:

Image

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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:13 am

Dear Glen,

Ah, therein lies one of the key issues with building show layouts :D

It appears from many years observation, that "exhibition addicts" either

A - take X weeks/months/years to build a show layout "to completion",
refuse to show it to anyone while it is "in build stage",
(except for the rare "is it up to scratch?" trusted critique team :wink: ),

then release it with a flourish,
hit a few shows,
then retire the layout and start the process again,

OR

B - get something to "presentable to public" spec fairly quickly,
get it to it's first show almost as a "proof of concept" test,
and then update/improve/modify as each show date comes around,
(IE, you'll never see that layout in the same configuration 2 shows in a row).

NB that the number of shows the layout attend in a year,
esp in it's "debut year",
can materially affect the "lifespan" of the layout on the show circuit.

It's a generally accepted concept here in Eastern Oz that a show layout that "hits a lot of shows early", can last maybe 3 years before it's "past it's prime". However, I have been involved with a few layouts that have "kept the interest up" for up to 8 years before needing to be retired.... :wink:

Getting back to the point,
(where was I?... Oh yes, that's right ... 2 approaches ... :roll: ),

Now, please don't mis-hear me, neither approach is "better" than the other, nor does either approach suit every modeller.
(And yes, as with most areas of modelling, and life,
there is a measure of "grey area" between these 2 approaches :wink: )

However, one of the benefits of the "Finish, then Show" approach is you can engineer and build things like layout skirts and signs, and <know> that they'll fit "forever more"... :wink:

Of course, if you are like me, and have found your preferred module size, height, and other "practical dimensions" early on,
(These can be tightly linked to the vehicle you transport the layout in,
buy a new car, and you are likely to have to re-think your "preferred layout specs"!!!! :evil: ),

it is likely that the skirts, power supplies, and other ancillary items may very well "fit" future layouts without too much stress... :wink:
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Jez kirkwood
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Postby Jez kirkwood » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:58 am

As someone who has regularly taken small children to exhibitions I fully understand the problems they face when viewing tall layouts, however with a background in stage design my layouts have always been eye level or close. After the first couple of exhibitions trying to hold up small kids I went to the local hardware shop and bought two plastic steps (as sold for adults to reach high shelves) - problem solved!. There is at least one exhibition in the UK that supplies these 'steps' on the door for no extra cost.
Thinking about my new layout and how it will be presented I think that providing a couple of these steps (which cost around £5 each) could be the cheap easy answer to making the layout accesible to the next generation without compromising the hieght for everyone else.
Finally I know that Iain Rice has already been mentioned elsewhere in this thread but if there are any of you who have not read his book 'An approach to model railway layout design - finescale in small spaces' go and get a copy now!!!!
Jez
Stout Mackintosh!!!

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Postby DCRfan » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:01 am

Prof Klyzlr,

Weed mat is shiny :(
You caught me out there, never noticed so checked roll in garage.
Definitely shiny on one side and semi-shiny on the other side which I guess I've subconciously used (twice).

While we don't want the skirts to "hold a crease", we <do> actually need it to form a controlled "corner" at the corner of the module.
Weed mat does that nicely.

I may be very wrong, but I suspect weed matting is best left in the garden...[/

G scale is garden scale so ....... :wink:
Paul

Gnu Zealand

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Prof Klyzlr
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:09 am

Dear Jez,

Here in Oz, (and I imagine in the US too),

I couldn't in good conscious reccomend your suggested course of action.

Don't get me wrong, it's a totally logical, simple, and effective solution, which doesn't need to be hard on the wallet, or on the transportation.
(Remember, everything you have to take to a show has to fit in the car :!: )

The reason I would NOT reccomend this solution is simply that we have had a few situations here recenly where a child has tripped, and fallen off/forward/backward from such low platforms. (This carries the attendent risk that the child instinctively reaches out and locks onto the layout to support themselves, causing a scale-sized earthquake, potentially damaging models, and in worst case, toppling a poorly engineered layout!?!?!?!? :shock: :shock: :shock: )

The resulting legal arguments about who was at fault,
who has to pay some big $$$,
to whom,
and who's responsibility the whole schmozzle was,

simply could not be believed :(

Suffice to say, the bit that matters is that,

if the layout OWNER supplies the platform,
and something goes wrong,
They are legally and $$$$ responsible.

If the Exhibition organisers supply chairs or similar platforms as part of their "crowd barrers", they THEY wear any legal responsibility.
(and as part of running the event, Workcover/"Aussie OSHA" requires the Organisers to have a minimum $X Million public liability insurance, so they are already "tuned and ready" to support such "legal issues" :) )

I'm no lawyer, and I really don't mention this with any intention of starting a "bush lawyer argument".
(Remember, laws in your particular country/state/provinec may vary!)

However, at least here in Eastern Australia, such a solution,
if supplied by the layout owner/exhibitor, is IMHO simply not worth the risk.... :(
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Postby DCRfan » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:46 am

Then perhaps we should take a tongue-in-cheek look at what safety measures the public should adher to when attending MR exhibition :wink: :

    personal viewing ladders are to be inspected and must have no more than three steps, be fitted with full safety frame and harness and display appropiate warning labels printed in at least four languages.

    it goes without saying dayglo vest to improve their visibility naturally a different colour from the exhibitors to avoid confusion in case of emergency

    safety glasses in case of loose scenery flock blowing off layouts

    all children fitted with approved safety harness firmly attached to at least one and preferably two parents or minders

    rubber gumboots and rubber gloves in case both rails of electrically live track are touched

    all venues must provide a team of trained tramua counsellors should patrons be exposed to a collision on Thomas The Tank Engine layout or Hand of God starting stalled trains

Paul

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Postby DCRfan » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:32 am

I'm currently reading the Iain Rice book 'Railway Modelling, The Realistic Way'. In the chapter on 'Preliminaries: Tools, Site Preparations and Baseboards' Iain mentions using mini-trestles typically 18-24 inches high which are designed to sit on standard folding tables to raise the layout to an appropiate display height at exhibitions. As the exhibition organisers provide folding tables they reduce the space required when transporting the layout as thay take up less space than full height trestles.

I've never seen them used so a few questions:

- how do you stop them moving around when sitting on the table top - rubber feet?

- is the idea to have two sets of covers/skirts, one for the tables and another to cover the mini trestles.
Paul

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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:57 am

Dear Paul,

My gut instinct would be to say:

- standard "drape" to put over the table
- mini trestles ontop

Option
A - Drape over mini trestles,and simply place the layout module on top of the whole asembly

B - module on mini-trestles, and then wrap layout skirt around the module facia as discussed earlier in the thread.

Now, the issues:

1 - having a lower drape on the base trestle table surface means <anything>placed on top is at risk of moving about
(the drape acts as a friction-reducing surface,
think of the various incarnations of the magician's "whipping the tablecloth out from under the full tablesetting" trick, :wink:

and the various spoof-performances where it <doesn't> work as expected... :evil: )

This would also render any "rubber feet" on the bottom of the "mini trestles" basically ineffective. :(

SO, lets assume "Option B" above is the better option
(We'll deal with the fact that it's UNLIKELY that the skirt,
which has been cut and manufactured to suit the layout footptint,
will "drape nicely" over the Trestle table which is most likely NOT the same footprint/size,
thus compromising "the presentation" again...)

2 - storage/transportation/packing space for 2 X "mini trestles" is not going to be any more or less than a well-thought-out "fullheight" leg design.

Image

Apologies for the mess, but here's an overview of the legs under "Brooklyn : 3AM"

Image

The Black things are collapable trestle table legs. The white things are leg extensions, which are simply electrical conduit with internal wood dowelling as "stiffener" members.

The trestle legs are screwed and glued to a <narrow> plank, that sits under the module against indexing blocks.

Image

close-up of the "plank", sitting against an indexing block.

NB that the white "leg extensions" simply slip off the black collapsible trestle leg systems, and thus can be fit in the footwell between the rear and front seats of the car,
(IE a packing space that few modellers tend to use when touring a layout to shows).

The Collapsible legs fold up against the plank, resulting in an assembly which is 3' 10" long,
(for a 4' long module),

barely 3" thick,

hand-carries like a briefcase,

and easily slides into the car alongside the module.
(again, I'm running a full "module + ceiling" procenium-style module,
for those running "flat earth" modules, it will sit on a flat surface with the module sitting on top of it, adding only 3" to the overall packed height).

4 - Maybe it's coming from the Pub Rock school of touring, but if you NEED to know that a given piece of equipment is going to be at the show, then it's highly reccomended to supply/bring it yourself.

I know it sounds cynical, but the IR "mini trestle" scheme relies on <someone else> supplying a base trestle table. I can't speak for other shows elsewhere in the world, but I could not rely on that to occur any many of the shows I regularly attend here on the East coast of Aust... :( :wink: :D
Last edited by Prof Klyzlr on Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr


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