Self-Acting Haulage Lines.

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Postby brod13 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:15 am

Very impressive John,
Quite like the shuffle at the start of the incline :D

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Postby Oztrainz » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:14 am

Hi all,
the mark 2 test rig passed its first full operational test last weekend after a new spool was made for the cable haulage part of the rig.
The cable operation was able to be tuned so that the speed of the cable matched the speed of the magnets circulating uned the track. This successfully gave the illusion that the cable was doing the hauling.

Now on to a Mark 3 test rig that really won't be on the level. :wink:
Looks like I have the time, gnow to get the inclination working :D :D :D
John Garaty
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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:16 am

Hi all,
work continues on the Mark3 testrig....
Here is a summary of the results so far - The magnets on a chain work provided:
1 - you have a smooth surface under the track for the magnet on the chain to skate along (I use 0.010" styrene superglued to the sleepers)
2 - the polarity of the magnet on the wagon is rigged so that it ATTRACTS the magnet on the chain (you have a 50/50 chance )
3 - you get the magnets as close to each other as you can without the magnet on the wagon fouling anything between the tracks (the inverse squre law applies here - double the distance apart between the magnets you get only 1/4 the attractive force)
4 - you can get the magnet stuck to a the chain link (best results with superglue so far)
5 - the teeth on the sprockets are filed down so that they don't protrude through the chain and push your magnets off the chain when the magnet link rolls around the sprocket (I learnt this one the hard way)

With a 10mm dia by 3mm thick rare earth magnet on both the chain and the wagon, so far I can:
haul and hold an On30 wagon on a 1 in 1 grade
or
have several wagons dotted along a 1 in 2 grade being hauled either up or down
or
move a train of 10 light 4-wheeled inside-framed skips that are fitted with axle in tube plain bearings on a 1 in 10 grade (one of these skips will just roll by itself on a 1 in 10 grade)

The wagon shudder in the videos can be prevented if the magnet on the wagon is placed between 1 and 3 sleeper spacings OUTSIDE of where the chain comes up on the sprocket. The wagons shown in the videos are very free rolling (built on needlepoint bearing HO bogies). More friction in the wagon will also help reduce the shudder
More testing continues....
John Garaty
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Postby Glen A » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:59 am

Oztrainz wrote:With a 10mm dia by 3mm thick rare earth magnet on both the chain and the wagon, so far I can:
haul and hold an On30 wagon on a 1 in 1 grade


Wow, sounds like really strong magnets!
Glad you are still progressing this.
I look forward to seeing the end result, (whatever Mk that ends up being).

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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:39 am

Glen A wrote:
Oztrainz wrote:With a 10mm dia by 3mm thick rare earth magnet on both the chain and the wagon, so far I can:
haul and hold an On30 wagon on a 1 in 1 grade


Wow, sounds like really strong magnets!


Yeah - don't get your fingers between them when you get 2 of them too close together and they come togther at speed - OUCH :!: :!: :shock:
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Postby Oztrainz » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:25 pm

Hi all,
Video of the Mark 3 test rig is now up at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTwEwRzSsBM

This rig is simulating the loaded skip run down a 1 in 2 grade.
Each skip weighs about 7 gm and with plain axle in tube bearings for the whole axle length inside the wheel, the skips will just start rolling on a 1 in 10 falling grade.

I hope the latest installment is of interest
John Garaty
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:44 pm

Dear John,

Lookin' GOOD :!: :!: :idea: :idea: :shock: :shock: :wink:
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

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Postby Glen A » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:35 pm

Wow John.

You are going to need quite a fleet of wagons (and operators) to keep up the supply of wagons.

So now you have worked out the right grade to make them roll on their own, you can put in a second incline with a flat area between the two. And they should be able to come off the first, and roll along to queue up for the next one. Or is that a bad idea? :twisted:

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Postby Rockley Bottom » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:51 pm

A great effort and a neat solution.
Ralph

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Postby DCRfan » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:57 pm

John,

Sweet success :!: Any idea how the wagons will react to kadee uncoupling magnets laid in other places on the layout?
Paul
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Postby Oztrainz » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:16 pm

Hi Glen
Almost the right idea BUT it gets a bit more complicated.....
to keep the incline working continuously with at least 2 skips on each incline will keep 2 operators busy shuttling at least 50 skips in 10 car trains between the mine and the incline at about 7 minute intervals, The grade on the inclines will probably flatten out to about 1 in 3 or 1 in 4. The test rig is to prove we can handle loaded skips without them breaking away and ending in a pile-up at the bottom of the grade :wink:

For additional bonus points, the plan as it stands at present is for....
1 - the downhill loaded "fulls" incline (first cut at it is Test Rig #3) will feed single skips to a side-dump tipple at the screens at the bottom of the "hill". The tipple mech is yet to be sorted but your Stamping Ground proves it can be done consistently.
2 - another short magnet run will drag the now empty skip to a dead-end from where it will roll under gravity back though a one-way point to the start of the uphill "empties" incline.
3 - at the top of the empties incline, the skips will come off the magnet run and roll above the "fulls" incline into the empties road, where they will be picked up by the Krauss loco for the run back to the minne for re-loading
4 - at the mine the Krauss loco cuts off and the skips are reloaded, and sets of 10 full skips are then towed back to the top of the incline by the Krauss.
5 - two or three additional magnet runs will be required on the flat to replicate horse-hauled movement of the full skips from near the water tank on the "empties" road to the top of of the fulls incline.

Still to be sorted
- Track layout and reload method at the mine
- Couplings - KD's are probably out because of the stong undertrack magnets. Coupling problems at the screens should not be a problem as the plan is to handle single skips only
- source of inside frame chassis for the skips - scratchbuild trials are currently underway
- source of CHEAP wheels for the skips (at near 7mm diameter)
- tipple mechanism and controls including sprags to hold wagon in the cage and a reliable "one-shot" way of getting skips into and out of the cage
- layout sound


:twisted: :idea: Applications are currently being sought for relief incline drivers and train drivers/loaders
Selection criteria - must be able to move a scale 1000 tons per exhibition shift
Any takers :?: :?:
John Garaty
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Postby DCRfan » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:41 pm

Oztrainz wrote:
:twisted: :idea: Applications are currently being sought for relief incline drivers and train drivers/loaders
Selection criteria - must be able to move a scale 1000 tons per exhibition shift
Any takers :?: :?:


Will the incline be steam or internal combustion driven. I don't have a steam ticket and the new steam school is fully booked for a few years http://www.infonews.co.nz/news.cfm?l=1&t=100&id=41611 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Paul

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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:08 am

:twisted: Do you gneed a license for gravity :?: :?:
:shock: and a whole lot of low volts electrickery spinning magnets.....
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Postby DCRfan » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:03 am

Oztrainz wrote::twisted: Do you gneed a license for gravity :?: :?:
:shock: and a whole lot of low volts electrickery spinning magnets.....


Probably is a obscure regulation requiring a Government Lizence to use gravity :wink:
Paul

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Postby Oztrainz » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:40 pm

Hi all,
Slow progess lately, but still progress. The main effort has focused on being able to cut individual cars off while they are on the grade from the top deadend leading to the downhill Fulls incline . It looks like we will be using some type of hook and loop couplings with a fixed ramp uncoupler at the top of the Fulls incline. We now have a set of sprags that will hold the lower car whch bunches up the following cars with the coupling between the first and second car over the uncoupling ramp. This lifts the loop. A second set of sprags engages the second wagon and holds it when the first sprag is lowered. This the allows the lower wagon to roll to a "hold point" where it waits for the next magnet on the undertrack chain to arrive and tow the loaded wagon away down the incline.
John Garaty
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Postby Oztrainz » Mon May 17, 2010 2:34 pm

Hi all, time now for another belated "slow progress" report,

Now that the design of the skips is almost locked in, the focus has shifted to the bottom of the incline, with several attempts at designing and building an operational side-dump tipple to feed the screens building. I now have a foamcore and stryrene mock-up of a tipple cage that will hold the skip and rotate through about 150 degrees to dump the skip contents. Testing is underway for the best way to drive the "tip" cycle and handle moving single skips through the dead end kickback to the start of the empties incline at a lower level from under the tipple deck.

Also detailed planning is now under way on how we are actually going to build the Corrimal Incline. The railway height at the top end has been set at 1350mm high. This was intentional to give the impression of looking up at a mountainside railway along the Illawarra escarpment and also to be a comfortable height when manually loading the skips. The length of the inclines look like being about 1.8 metres long with a fall of about 500mm. This gives a "near-enough" 1 in 4 grade for the inclines, which is far less severe than the Mark3 test-rig and is actually close to the prototype gradients. The level of the standard-gauge track under the sceens looks like it will be about 600mm above floor level. This will be the height of the lowest baseboard that supports the tipple and screens buildings.
John Garaty
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Postby Glen A » Mon May 17, 2010 8:12 pm

Hi John,
I'm pleased that you are still progressing this.
That height difference is going to be quite impressive.

:idea: if you made a little box (300mm high) to put on the floor to stand on at the loading end, then you could extend the high end another 300mm higher up, and still have it at a comfortable working height for you.
That would make it even more dramatic in height difference, although the height may now be too high for children to see it unassisted.
It all depends if you have room to transport the extra length module that would generate.

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Postby Panda » Tue May 18, 2010 10:35 am

Wow that is fantastic!
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Postby Oztrainz » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:45 am

Oztrainz wrote:Hi all,
Here's the track plan for the top
Image


Hi all,
You've seen the description above,
now here's the video -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXicbZs_dWQ
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Postby Glen A » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:59 am


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Postby DCRfan » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:19 am

Magic
Paul

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Postby Oztrainz » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:17 pm

Hi all,
Further slow progress, a mockup of the final trackplan for the bottom end has been completed.

Image

The view from the mountainside above the screens building on the left, over the standard gauge tracks and the incline arriving at the tipple house on the right. The empties incline with a single skip comes back up between the two buildings.

The view from the other end:

Image
showing the tipple building and the empties return dipping under the chain conveyor from the tipple building to the screens building

and the skip being tipped in the tipple cage
Image

At this stage, provision has been made to run the chain paths, but there is no immediate plan to install the chains under the track. This mock up was purely to get a feel of where the tracks and buildings would be in space. It was also to get a feel of whether the vertical curves in the track firstly would be able to be made, and secondly, be traversed sucessfully by the skips. So far, so good.

Work is currently underway at the dead-end to fine tune the set of points in the second photo, so that they can be weight biased toward the empties incline. The magnetic attraction of the magnet under the skip to the chain under the track provides enough "oomph" to compensate for the light weight of the empty skips (about 13g) when pushing the point blades over as the skip heads to the dead-end after tipping.
John Garaty
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Postby Bob Roegge » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:43 pm

Very impressive annimated scene potential. Gnice.
Bob

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Postby Glen A » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:48 am

It’s looking great John. 8)

I can't believe the size of it! :shock:
So what is the overall length by the time you add the incline on the end it?

You will be able to run exhibitions on your own, with just you in the hall :lol: Which wouldn’t necessary be a bad thing either. Because once it is finished you are going to need plenty of space around it to accommodate the crowd of on-lookers that will be attracted!

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Postby Adrian » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:45 am

G'day John

Like the way the animation is coming on, its looking good.

Just a few ideas.
First the point that needs to be 'sprung' to return the empties.
If you change that from a right-hand to a left-hand version it should be possible to fix the blades in place, load everything with solder and then attack it with a grinding disk and finish up with a point that directs any incoming vehicles to the right without any moving parts.
Prof gave details some time ago but I have mislaid the link.....Sorry. :oops:

Second.......the tippler.
Built one of those myself a number of years ago. Will post pictures if you think they might help. Its dark and windy here at the moment so no chance of taking them till tomorrow.
I based mine on an article in an english magazine. It has a counterweight bar arrangement that holds the wagon in place together with a sprung plate to rub against the back of the wheels to stop (sort of ) derailments.
The hardest bit in the construction was the large diameter gearwheels......It took about 30 years from the time I decided to build the critter till I thought of using the rack from HO rack railways for the gear.

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