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Postby JT Previa » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:23 am

Bill,

Nice gnew photos!



Have you considered putting some debris of whatever Wood Bros puts down the tippler around the base of the tippler? How about trimming the backboard at the tops of the shed roofed buildings and cutting down the board behind the fence on the left below the trees? I think this would really visually extend the layout.
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Postby michael » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:12 am

Image
Bill you're gonna hate me for this, but looking hard at this picture, I ask myself, What are the retaining posts and timbers for?
Was there a building there?
Is the ground unstable?
They look too even and organized to be simply there for retaining a slope.

I know that this seems unlikely but was there a hut there for the workers who were overseeing the tipping onto the chute? at one time?

I only ask these questions because the right hand side of the layout looks like it is finished and the left hand side.......
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Postby JT Previa » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:54 am

I thought those posts on the slope were the remnant of some past industrial process structure. Palimpsest. Not uncommon to see on an old industrial site. Perhaps a bit of collapsed steel or conduit to tie it together?
JT

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Postby Rockley Bottom » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:09 pm

We all know that the final bits that add the character to the layout.
Its a little like the wife adding the final bits of make-up etc. pre going out.

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Postby Bilco » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:37 pm

Well, your suggestions have certainly got me thinking, chaps! JT - there will be debris from the tipper scattered about the base - when I've decided what is going to be tipped, and into what :roll: I'll certainly cut down the bit at the side by the tree - good spot - but I planned the back board to protect the peaks of the roofs, and fit with the top, front and left side that box the layout in when it's not being worked on, to keep off the dust and stop the sun bleaching the backdrop.

Michael - the pipes and concrete beams are supposed to be there to stabilise the slope - it's about 45 degrees there, and I thought it would need that. However, your point about the left versus right - the left is a bit empty - not much happening compared with the right side. I thought that there would be a clear view from the side as well as the front, but I'm coming round to the thought of some sort of proscenium arch to frame the view if I ever get to exhibit.

I'm thinking now, to bring a bit of life into the left, of carving out a rough track across from the left side at a level higher than the rails. It would lead to that scrap pile I mentioned and be a more believable route for the scrap to have got there. I could even put my Volvo skidder there - with a skip under the tipper there isn't much room at the front, and the skidder would be an additional view block/attention diverter for the exit of the rails at left rear. The ground is easy to cut - florists foam blocks, of you recall - and a coat of the artists acrylic texture paste will seal the exposed surface. That would get rid of those pipe and beam stabilizers!

John - a clever idea about watering the grass! However, it will still look like a wig to me, so I think it's got to go. By the way, the layout is nothing to do with Wood Brothers, that just happened to be the name on the image I downloaded, and Baigent is my wife's maiden name, and I always try to include that somewhere. I'm thinking of calling the layout 'Sea-Shore Shingle Shippers' - try saying that after a couple of glasses of something warming :shock:

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Postby Bilco » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:56 pm

Well, I've had a few days to think about what I'm going to do, and had some suggestions which set me thinking. I'm heading towards a drastic revamp of the left side of the layout.

I talked in my last post about having a 'frame' around the front of the layout - which really doesn't fit in with the open left side, so I've decided that it's got to be closed off. Then I think I'll put some structure to tie the left side into the existing buildings. I have some images of high-level walkways and corrugated structures like those that Michael has on Macton.

I've also realized that my 'unstable steep slope' appears to be held up by a little wooden fence at the back, so I'll make a retaining wall on the far side, that runs along the top, stepped down towards the right side.

I'm thinking of a low-relief corrugated structure at front left, partly over the roadway and resting on a stone base buried into the slope. Then a walkway or similar up to the building on the backscene, over the cutting and hiding the opening to the fiddleyard. I've made a card mock-up of the structure to see the effect. The rails on the tippler will run into the structure, to suggest that other traffic can be handled - now I know why I made those tubs! The stone base and retaining wall will be made with those egg-box stone blocks, like the culvert and tippler abutment.



Image


Image

Having looked at the mock-up I think it sticks out a bit too much from the left side - maybe better half as much - and should be higher so it has 2 floors, then I can put the connection to the backscene across level. There will be a set of steps down as well, for that genuine industrial look.

The final layout is going to look a bit different, but I hope it will be a touch more balanced and add a bit of interest. So, it's eyes down for a session of hacking and demolishing, before the new, improved layout starts to appear - or not :roll:
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Postby michael » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:41 pm

Wow that looks great Bill, I agree with you on the amount that it sticks out, The idea of the track going into the building and working as the opening to a fiddle yard is terrific. If I might make a suggestion when you make the building two stories it might be something to think about creating some form of step in the structure to lessen the apparent mass of a big building. Im not sure that that sounded right, but I think you nkow what I mean.

Another thought while I sit here is..... What if the slope of the roof went from the front to the back and a little jog then up to the next level.

Oh dear I have already poked my nose in too far :wink:

And thanks for the reference to Macton, I am looking forward to having the space to be able to put it back together.
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Postby Bilco » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:57 pm

Right - the decks have been cleared, nerves steadied, sinews girded, resolve hardened - and I've made a start on the changes to the left side of the layout, as outlined above. Before the demolition started a memorial photograph was taken, so we can all remember how nice it was before I messed it all up :roll:


Image

It was amazing how resistant to tools various the scenery was - I must have built it to a better standard than I remember. Some brute force was required at times. Basically, the concrete beams holding back the hillside at left front were hauled out, the lower stabilizing beam removed, the trees and fence at the top of the hill wrenched from their moorings, sections of the fencing lower down the hill removed, and the hard shell surface removed up to the far end of the proposed building. The side board was cut down by several inches (much as you suggested, JT) and the florists foam hacked out to fit in the side wall of the base for the new building and levelled for the base of the upper level. Finally, the buffers and light at the end of the tipping dock were carefully removed.

It didn't take too long, and I had cunningly waited until mai laidy waif was away for the day, so that I could use the dining room table as a work surface. After hoovering up the resulting debris another photo was taken to capture the carnage.


Image

Next came the interesting part - building up the new features. The first job was to cut a new side board to size, so that it fitted around the fiddle yard and other obstructions. I had prepared a suitable piece of hardboard I found in the back of the garage, painted appropriately, so this job was quite quick. I had also made the left side of the front wall of the base, with egg-box stonework in place and basecoated, so I only had to cut another piece of foamboard for the side wall and one for the upper floor. A trial fit showed that things were roughly how I wanted and yet another photo taken.


Image



The session was concluded by liberally coating the new side board with PVA and slapping it onto the side of the layout over the old one. A few brass panel pins were bashed in to fix it at the bottom, and the layout left standing on its left side with weights and clamps holding everything together. It will sit on the dining table until Monday evening, as I'm off to Lunnun tomorrow, and the hope is that all will be dry and firmly fixed in the right place when I get back. All I need now is a supply of old egg boxes - there's a lot of stonework to do :shock:
Bill

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Postby gfadvance » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:19 pm

OK X Factor has just started so I have run away and come to the sanity of the Gnatterbox :wink: - don't know why but when that programme comes on have an overwhelming urge to find a shotgun :!:

Anyway to more important matters..............

Bilco, thought this layout was good before but due to your bravery think its going to get even better :D
Think the idea of the stepped two story structure is going to be a winner and I look forward to seeing how this develops.

Bit cheeky this and I hope you won't hold it against me but any chance of keeping your pictures to about 800 pixels wide ........... give my old eyes a chance to read and see the pictures without having to scroll sideways and then getting lost when I try to find my way back to the narrative
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Postby JT Previa » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:39 pm

Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to share your work. I agree with you and Michael that reducing the massing of the new structure is a good idea. I also like your idea of some sort of catwalk/truss along the left backboard - a common feature at 19th century mill buildings here in New England's old manufacturing cities. It could be another opportunity for your great rusting technique! If you build such a thing, have you considered putting it on a slight diagonal, up/down or left/right? (I've been known to reminding my graphic designers not to let the box their graphics are displayed in determine the geometry of the graphics.) Okay, unsolicited sidewalk superintendent signing off :)
JT

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Postby Bilco » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:41 pm

A little progress to report - too many calls on my time at the moment. The stone base for the putative new building is in place, and set into the scenery.

Image

The building is developing in foam board, and nearly ready to be clad in corrugated sheets. The track is extended to the left side of the board. I realized that I could carry it onwards, so cut a hole in the new side board. When it was all done and the track laid, I thought I'd see if the 2-track sector plate would connect - it does, perfectly! The height is spot-on - I'm sure I couldn't have done that if I'd spent time measuring and cutting carefully :roll:

Having achieved that, another thought occurred - I can make a plug-in semi-circle of track and have a roundy-roundy layout if I want. I might end up being able to run trains at home, which would be a first . It would also be useful if I exhibit, to be able to leave something running when I want a 'P' break or something. The main operation will still be tippers running backwards and forwards, though.

Ideas are still slopping around my head for a connection or connections between the new building and the Wood Bros building on the back scene. Your point will be borne in mind, JT.

However it turns out, the layout is going to look quite different - when I finish it.
Bill

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Postby dieselwater » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:37 pm

Looks great Bill! I like how the track is carried into the Gnew building. The door underneath connects the track and the lower level perfectly, Gnice touch. You've opened up so many possibilites for the layout too.
Little old lines to somewhere.

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Postby michael » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:59 pm

Bill what a great start on the new buildingthe stonework looks great! The grrill above the door is a wonderful touch. It will be interesting to see how you render the rust streaks down from the tracks. especially with all those ledges on the top of each stone :twisted:

The notion of creating a continuous loop is a good one as well. So then you will be able to chat to the pundits when you take it to its first show :)

Did I say that :?: :wink:
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Postby Glen A » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:34 am

Hi Bill,

The texture of that stone work looks great!
I just rescued an egg carton out of the recycle to have a go myself. Though the composition of our egg cartons and your ones may well be different.

Great idea to have a loop of track too.

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Postby JT Previa » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:11 am

I must add to the chorus: the stonework looks sharp, the vent above the door is inspired use of space (and you've even included a rusted lintel) and the continuation loop's a great idea! Nice dirt splash up at the bottom of the door too.
JT

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Postby Bilco » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:41 pm

Well, another week, a little progress. I think I've finished cutting, sticking and chucking foam board now - just as well, as I haven't any unused sheets left. :roll:


Image

The left side of the layout now looks like this. The new building on the left, awaiting its covering of corrugated iron, the new, higher retaining wall at the side of the new building, and the covered walkway, a Macton rip-off, between the new building and the backscene - angled across the board, as you suggested, JT! The brown paint on the new building is so that there won't be any tell-tale bits of white under the corrugated sheeting at the edges. The black lines down the frontage are where I hope to have an iron staircase between levels.

Also visible is a big trench in the hillside under the walkway. Several plans back I thought I would have a flight of steps running up the hill from the new building, then have an open walkway across to the backscene. I carefully measured the horizontal and vertical distances involved, and drew out a full-scale plan of the steps. Having measured off the plan the tread depth and riser height, I cut 20 3.5cm X 2 cm pieces of foam board and carefully assembled them into the desired flight of steps. Then I offered the resulting construction up to the trench in the hillside I had carved to take it - and found that my calculations had gone awry somewhere along the line, and the steps were too long and too low. Ah well, another candidate for the bin and a new plan to dream up - Ok, 2 plans, as I need to work out how to fill in the trench, having thrown away the excavated florists foam. :x

The covered walkway will have a skin made up of plastruct angle and strip, and a bit of corrugated iron. The roof will be a bit of a challengne, as the angles at the ends will take a bit of luck to get right. At least the basic roof will be made of card, so I won't waste any more foamboard :oops:
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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:05 pm

Don't you love how layouts evolve :D
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby michael » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:38 pm

Bill, I like the way it is evolving, thinking about the space under the walkway , what about a couple of vent grates that are partially obscured by a bit of blown in debris at the back end. you already have a vent above the door. so there is stuff happening below ground.
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Postby dieselwater » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:03 pm

Wow Bill, what an adventure! Fantastic development.
Little old lines to somewhere.

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Postby John New » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:56 pm

Whether or not the staircase idea worked now you have dug it why not just leave the trench as a feature? Coffee stirers for shoring. a few bits of scrap tube for pipes, or some electric cabling being installed etc.
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Postby Bilco » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:19 pm

Many thanks for the comments and suggestions, gents. John - I really like your idea - sadly, I've already filled in the trench! :(

Michael - definitely getting my ideas going on this - vents or grills coming up over the retaining wall - or maybe an exhaust stack? Lots of possibilities to be considered.

Must get on with making the corrugated sheeting - lots of it - and cutting up lots of egg boxes for the rear retaining wall :roll:
Last edited by Bilco on Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby joe gilmartin » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:53 pm

Great new photos Bill....
I give you Much credit for tearing apart such a beautiful
layout (don't know if could do the same)
Always good ideas for your posts
Love the ground level door!
cheers
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Postby Bilco » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:18 pm

This weekend I've been working on the corrugated iron sheeting I'll need for the new building. On my 16mm layout I used some craft card I bought in The Workshop, so I found the remaining sheets in the back of the garage and got to work.

The sheets come in different colours of thin corrugated card, with a piece of thin paper stuck to the back. This backing can be pulled off easily, to leave the corrugation card. I fixed the sheets onto a piece of board and sprayed them with grey undercoat, followed by light sprayings of silver and steel. The spray stiffens the sheets and waterproofs them for when I use acrylics in the next step.

Image

I want the cladding to match the printed out backdrop, so I used a print-out copy to get the tones approximately right and started to coat the sheets. I put burnt umber along the bottom of the 2 main sheets - the smaller one is for roofing. I mixed up a pinky-rusty-reddish colour from Railmatch light brick and dark rust, with a touch of red, and covered the middle and upper parts of the sheets, wiping the paint off the raised part of the corrugations in some areas, and just coating the raised portions of some of the burnt umber sections. Then I used diluted burnt umber over some areas of the red mix, and wiped that off the raised portions. On the roofing I did a lighter rust colour and left some in silver. The results were encouraging.

Image

After the paint dried I compared the sheets to the backdrop, and thought that the colours were a bit bright, so I gave the sheets a good dusting of MIG concrete pigment powder to tone them down. The final result is quite close I think.

Image

I'll cut the sheets into pieces of a size to match the sheets on the backdrop. These are quite short at the bottom, and get longer on the upper portions. All I have to do then is fix 'em to the building, mixing the various sections to get the rather random colouring effect of the original.
Bill

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Postby gfadvance » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:23 pm

Bill those look great and good timing as I need to do a bit more on the roof of my 16mm kiln building.

You mentioned your 16mm layout, have you posted details on this site ?
Gordon F

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Postby Bilco » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:28 pm

Hi Gordon - there are some pic's here http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page59a/index.html it's Baigent's Yard
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