outstanding modelling

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teetrix
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outstanding modelling

Postby teetrix » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:58 pm

Since some months I read this thread about few modules with a bridge, sheds and a lot of brickwork in IIf (600mm gauged "Feldbahn" in 1:22,5) in a german forum:
http://www.kostenloses-forum.com/board/ ... t,544.html

Sometimes its hard to find out whats model and whats proto pics, and sometimes I tought I should give up modelling and collect stamps or so :wink:

Enjoy
Michael

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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:51 pm

I'll only describe the use of a CNC milling machine to produce the brickwork as "cheating," as I'm green with envy! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

That's some wonderful modelling :shock: :shock:
Barry Weston

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Postby Nick Ellingworth » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:57 pm

It is fairly incredible, after my experiences with brick laying the CNC machine is definitely cheating in my opinion. :wink:
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Postby DCRfan » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:43 pm

Yeah definitely cheating :shock: but it is great modelling
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Postby Adrian » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:18 am

Yep....great modelling....attention to detail is fantastic....weathering is spot on.....BUT....the peoples still look like models.
(just wish I could model as well as the rest of the layout !)
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Postby michael » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:15 am

It is interesting to read that an inovative method of creating a brick building effect as "Cheating"

I am curious as to what would constitute "not cheating"

It would seem to me that all our endeavours to make a minature of something, anything for that matter, is a matter of creative work. Would casting a set of moulds of to create a model of a loco in resin instead of making it out of metal be construed as "Cheating" I think that this whole subject of "cheating" might nee to be re_thunk. :wink:

As I sit here listening to Spencer Davis 8)

"Did I just give away how old I am??? :roll:
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Postby DCRfan » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:31 am

michael wrote:It is interesting to read that an inovative method of creating a brick building effect as "Cheating"

I am curious as to what would constitute "not cheating"



Anyone that is able to make their models look so good must be cheating :wink:

I'm sure he has actually perfected a miniaturisation machine :lol:
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Postby KEG » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:53 am

Hi,

Must be a very slow CNC machine. He started more than two years ago and not a single building is ready yet.

Maybe he simply spends too much time filling the various forums. You can find the theme here as well:

http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?t=6691

Have Fun

Juergen

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Postby altterrain » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:46 pm

KEG wrote:Hi,

Must be a very slow CNC machine. He started more than two years ago and not a single building is ready yet.

Juergen


:lol: That's pretty good. Is it really great modeling if it takes you five years to complete a project?
It took me a year and a half to get my 7/8's layout to where it is now (and that doesn't even take into account for other projects). I knocked out my 28 inch long stone station in less than two months-

Image

Not finescale but it is impressive.

-Brian
Image

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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:38 pm

KEG wrote:Maybe he simply spends too much time filling the various forums.


:lol: Dont we all do that :lol:

To be fair, I dont think what he is building, could really be called railway modelling, or it is more like a museum piece.
A lot of his time must be spent on research and learning how best to produce the components for the model. The level of detail that he is going to, is far higher than for a model of a railway. not many of us would go as far as a brick curved arch ceiling inside a building, or even going back and changing the lamps as the bulbs were too modern for the period being modelled :lol:
I think what he has done is superb, but I wouldn't want to model to that degree of accuracy, even if I had the time :wink: let alone the ability.
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Postby teetrix » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:24 pm

Maybe he simply spends too much time filling the various forums.
#

Many people can't join the "Buntbahnforum". It is by its own rules a forum for advanced (quote: "higher than average") modelling in 1:22,5 or bigger. Or they don't like to do it. So I think it's honest, to post and discuss the own work on variuos places.

Code: Select all

He started more than two years ago and not a single building is ready yet.


And if he needs five years, its still perfect and a great fun to see. "Go your own pace" is one of the Gnatterbox suggestion for newbies.

Michael

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Postby KEG » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:02 pm

Hi,

You don´t have to sign in at Buntbahns to read the public part.

Of course that fellows research, planning and work is outstanding.
To me it seems very technically and cold. I still miss the heartblood and artistry, I admire in the work of many others around the world.

I hope, I will live long enough to see that project finished one day.

Have Fun

Juergen

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Postby Alan » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:15 pm

I've just been through all 45 pages and I'm stunned. The man has time to post on forums/fora, time to produce CAD images, time to set up a CNC milling machine, multiple times, time for impeccable research, time for beautiful weathering and time to plan.

He has to be retired. Ambiguous context deliberate.
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Postby KEG » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:02 am

Hi,

Well, if you like outstanding modelling, have a look at this:

http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?t=8790&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

It took the builder only 4 weeks to accomplish that little building.
Try to find it in his village.

Have Fun

Juergen

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Postby Gerry Bullock » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm

Superb modelling Juergen, I must say I prefer this approach to that of the CNC Whizz-Kid.

The comment on ability is possible to address according to scientific research. Apparently all that is necessary before starting a project is to think one self into the shoes of a modeller whose talent you admire - allow 15 minutes for this exercise.
What you then produce may not reach the heights of the maestro BUT your effort will be far superior to any previous models you have produced. :wink:
Can't say I've tried this. :roll:
You may. of course, need a Magic Wand if CNC is in the frame. :twisted:
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
http://gn15gnutt.blogspot.com/

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Postby Rowley » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:31 pm

Just looked through the pages. Unfortunately, I can't read the text as I can't speak the language. However as Steve says I wouldn't say its railway modelling as we know it. I'd put it more in the likes of miniature engineering modelling. Each to his own, but before I retired I worked as a toolroom machinist working to +or- 2microns tolerances and got a lot more satisfaction working on an ordinary verticle miller that I did when transfered to a c.n.c. machining centre.I agree that you have to be careful when it comes to saying a person is cheating because he uses the latest machines to do the job, because more likely than not, the power units that are fitted to our loco's were made on c.n.c machines. I think that it's a matter of taking it into account how the object was achieved when judging the model. A person with a lathe and miller etc is bound to find it easier to make a perfect brick wall (like the one he did) than a person with just the minimum of hand tools.
All the best Rowley
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Postby Cross Kitter » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:51 pm

The brick stages are similar to using the stencils that can be bought from the site below:

http://www.craft-products.com/realistic ... encils.asp

Its the reverse of what he has done but would someone say that it's cheating??

I use the mortar method in HO as well when I use brick coloured plasticard and brush on mortar colour and gently sand it off. Leaves matt bricks with light grey mortar in between. :?

Of course in Gn15 half bricks and corners etc show up much more. Lets face it though none of us really want that kind of clinical cleanliness and uniformity we are, I think, more interested in achieving a dilapidated (no I didn't say grotty :P ) look and not a "clean" and clinical one. Wonky bricklaying has got far more character :roll:
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I'm looking for that decrepit look. What, I just need to look in the mirror?

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Postby teetrix » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:43 pm

Each to his own, but before I retired I worked as a toolroom machinist working to +or- 2microns tolerances and got a lot more satisfaction working on an ordinary verticle miller that I did when transfered to a c.n.c. machining centre.


Rowley,
I have worked on both too and be proud about my knowledges in conventional machining - but fascinated by the possibilities of CNCalso. Honestly: Making several meters of brickwork on a conventional mill will be a boring job :wink:

btw: CNC milling is old hat, the dernier cri is rapid prototyping, stereolithography, waxplotting or whatever: Make a CAD-file, put it to the manufacturer and get the master pattern for brass or whitemetal casting:
http://www.kostenloses-forum.com/board/ ... rt,10.html
Since the prices fall, one of our kitmakers uses this technology. Maybe it's cheating :D , but it will be ok if it helps to make new kits at a reasonable price :wink:

Michael
PS: 1 micron = 0,01 mm or 0,001mm?
Last edited by teetrix on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:48 pm

teetrix wrote:PS: 1 micron = 0,01 mm or 0,001mm?


1 micon = 0.001mm
Barry Weston



If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer.



The only thing that keeps me sane, is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes....



Never knowingly sensible!

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Postby Pandy » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:46 pm

Well, cheating or not it's certainly outstanding ! No doubt if I had the equipment and skills to use it I would be considering the same approach, milling out coach body parts & allsorts, it's certainly impressive, wonder how it would all stand up to being transported around exhibitions ? :)
However, there is another thread that I find even more impressive, Trevor Coburn with the Kerr-Stuart ! Considering the conditions under which it is being built, not exactly very modelling friendly at best, minimal tools & supplies, I think it's pretty safe to say I know who out of the two will be most satisfied with their end result.
Dave & Lorraine, more ideas than space, time & finance permit !

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Postby KEG » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:09 pm

btw: CNC milling is old hat, the dernier cri is rapid prototyping, stereolithography, waxplotting or whatever: Make a CAD-file, put it to the manufacturer and get the master pattern for brass or whitemetal casting:


CNC milling is only one of the newer technologies, more or less readily available for almost everybody.
Some people have the eqipment in their workshop, some simply send the cutting files to a professional who does it for them.

The same applies to laser cutting, water jet, rapidprototyping. The machines cost a lot more money, so you don´t see them too often in private households.

Almost everybody can learn CAD in a few days or weeks (So I was told)
A RPT master in 1 : 22,5 can look like this:

Image

It took only a few days for the design, the masters and making the whitemetal moulds. But you have to sell quite many of these bogies to get the costs back in again.

I doubt, that we see a Gn15 model designed with the aid of Rapid Prototyping on the market in the near future.

Have Fun

Juergen


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