Pet (it's all Ralph and Gerry's fault)

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michael
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Postby michael » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:03 am

Another step backwards this evening, I realised that the tube was going to be locked onto the plastic chassis and that things were starting to go down the wrong track.

I reduced the diameter slightly of the two end rings and reshaped the flanges and then opened up the centres so that the holes in the end plates would not be blocked.

the smokebox end it will have an opening door. with the flue tubes mocked up inside.

Image

The backplate end with the "oven" opening and the firebox hole which will also have an opening door.

Image

I also changed the orientation of the motor to line up along the axis of the chassis instead of crosswise. There is not much left of Percy at this jucture.
Image.

The motor needed an extra supprt bracket because I had to cut off the other one, so one bent peice of brass later and two 2x56 allen head screws, a bracket was cobbled together, and a small piece of maple as a filler.

I realised that I needed to be able to remove the body to service the motor. The brass stuff will all get soldered together.

Image

Now I can get on and make the propper top coal bin and water tank.
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Postby jameswaterfield » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:19 am

Inside of smokebox
Image
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Postby Rockley Bottom » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:29 pm

Thank you Michael, a first-class explanation of your punch. It is something I intended to make years ago. I could save myself alot of drilling and time if I took the trouble to make one.

Most of my rivets are rod in holes which works but is alittle like sticking the leaves back on the trees in the fall :wink: :wink:

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Postby michael » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:17 pm

James thanks for the great picture of the smokebox, that is really helpful.

Ralph your thoughts about drilling holes are exactly the reason I took the time to build the rivet punch. The ball pint one works just as well.

I will be doing thin sheets to overlay the front and back plates with the rivets embossed.
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Postby underworld » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:07 pm

Michael

Awesome metal work!!!


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Postby Dallas_M » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:15 pm

michael wrote:You wont beleive this but I actually started to count the rivets, there are 48 across the bottom of the tank. It would be fun to actually have the right number. :roll: Am I completely loony or just warped.


Hi Michael --

I'd have to go with "warped" ... but in a nice way that adds character! And the extra "loony" touches are obviously going to make an exquisite little loco. Neat stuff.

QUESTION: Quick look at the prototype photos and drawing ... and I'm still trying to figure out where the drive cylinders are ... inside the frame?
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Postby michael » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:03 pm

Hi Dallas yes the cylinders are between the frames. There are 2 cylinders 4 1/4 inches in diameter and with a 6 inch stroke.

I laid out the rivet positions on the smokebox plate and punched them this morning.

Image

Image

then sweated it to the thick plate.

Image

after cleaning up and sweating the tube ring on as well, it looks like it will work.

Image

The really tricky bit this morning was drilling the tube plate holes, doing this free hand without my mill was challenging. I did use a small bench drill press.

Image

I was originally just going to use the holes but they didn't look right, so I ended up reaming the holes and putting in the tubes, they didn't need to be long but visually they do make a difference. The tube is 3/64ths, when all the tubes are cut, the tubes will be pushed down just a hair proud of the plate and I will fret out the plate to solder to the back of the smokebox assembly.

Image
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Postby gfadvance » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:08 pm

Michael,

this is wonderful work, real craftsmanship :D

Nothing else i can add ,except maybe don't keep us waiting too long for the next episode

Fantastic..................
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Postby Rockley Bottom » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:46 pm

Great skill Michael
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Postby jameswaterfield » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:22 pm

Fabulous stuff and quite beyond me in skill. I can manage full- size but no smaller. I'm pleased to have been able to help in a small way with some pictures. BTW don't forget that these amazing little engines at Crewe Works were very early (1862) and designed by Webb. They were some of the earliest narrow gauge engines doing useful work and the design was certainly used by Heywood particularly "Effie"- just compare photos to see the similarities.
The originals had extremely tall chimneys but these were later cut down a few feet to what remains now.
The cylinders and link motion were squeezed between the frames and everything is very small!
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Postby michael » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:18 pm

Underworld, Gordon, Ralph,and James thanks for your kind words This is definitely and enjoyable challenge.I finished the inside of the smokebox.

Image

I made two mishakes that I am just going to have to live with. :cry: :oops: :oops: The first one was making the cross bar too heavy and deep in the centre, which will make locking the door virtually impossible, so I will need to make it stiff enough that it stays in the closed position unless I want it open.

Image

The other one was soldering up the tube plate before putting in the blast nozzle, boy was that fiddly to fix, something to remember for the next time I try something like this.

Image

Next to tackle the door. I am also going to steal a couple of con rod bolts from another Percy to make them smaller on both sides. because I am not using the rod from the cylinders, The bolts with the spacers look a bit heavy.
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Postby Glen A » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:10 am

Well, if you say it was fiddly, then it must have been really fiddly!
Because the whole lot looks too fiddly for me.

Michael, you have done some really impressive work there.
And its a shame you are going to put a smoke box door on, and cover it all up. :roll:

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Postby michael » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:57 am

Hi Glen thanks for the encouragement. The door will only be closed when the loco is moving.

Image

The higes on the real loco have two small sections that bolt to the smokebox plate, I compromised and used a tube, which was tricky enough to solder without causing the rest to get soldered at the same time.

I spotted Bertand checking things out when I came back after my tea break.

Image

Image

Now it is time for bed it was a good day and I am happy that the door works.
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Postby gfadvance » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:10 am

Appreciate there is a time difference but "when you are in the mood" you don't hang around do you? :lol:

Couple of "brass" questions

When I use brass always have a bit of trouble getting square edges - am I right to presume you saw out basic shape and then finish of by file?

How do you finish of surface of brass - is it by use of fine emery paper?

Look forward to the breakfast update tomorrow
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Postby jameswaterfield » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:01 am

An engraving showing the original height chimney and a picture of some nameplates. I'm afraid the engraving comes out a bit odd

James

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Postby Anonymous » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:28 pm

Brilliant!

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Postby Geeky Gecko » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:00 pm

Great model, Michael.
Last time I was at the NRM I hadn't discovered minimum gauge modelling, and I had forgotten all about this engine until I saw your thread, or I might have attempted a model myself.
Your modelling inspires.
Stefan

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Postby michael » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:32 pm

Just woke up,I slept in this morning the sun was already beaming into the house, Had to run around and open the drapes to get the place warmed up. We need to use the sun as much as possible, in this passive solar house. The wood stove has been working overtime this past couple of weeks, when it is cloudy we need to supplement the sun when it gets colder. Yesterday morning there were the first sheets of ice on the lake.

Gordon;
Depending on the thickness of the brass I use a number of different techniques. You are correct that I do fret out most of the work with a jewelers saw. I did this for the plates and for the door disc. The extra brass after sweating the thin sheet to the thick sheet I first trimmed with some scissors then used needle files and some emory sticks. I did try to cut the hinge straps from some .004 thou shim stock, both hard brass and annealed it didnt look right, and was a bit sloppy. I did have some .060 x .010 brass strip from K&S engineering, so I annealed it and then embossed the rivet heads with a smaller punch, but instead of just pushing with the palm of my hand which distorted the brass too much, I used a watchmaking hammer(I gnow it sounds strange)and tapped the punch and it gave a nice clean head.
It took a couple if tries to get the length right, because to get the loop at the pivot end I bent it around a rod of .020 steel and crimped it with some needle nose pliers.
After the two hinges were soldered in place, I drilled the lock hole and using a tip from John Garity I used a 0x80 round headed slotted bolt to solve the locking problem, I made it oval by filing away the thread a little on opposite sides, and then soldered a rod into the slot. a slice of 1/16th brass tube crimped on the inside to retain it.

Lining up the door and soldering the hinge tube was the most difficult part of the whole job. I had to reshape the tip of my largest soldering iron so that the width of the tip was just a bit narrower than the tube, sort of chisel shaped to get in close enough. There was already so much mass that to heat up the brass enough to put the tube on meant being fast and precise. So with the door locked and a small bit of dowel with a groove to hold the tube tight to the plate, the brute force soldering iron was placed into position and I held my breath hoping that only the tube was soldered and nothing else. It worked!.

Other times I use a razor saw in a small bench hook.

I use a variety of fine files and emory sticks. I take a length of stripwood or some evergreen say 1/2 x 1/8th and stick some 240 grit on one side and 320 or 400 on the other with carpet tape these are way cheaper to make than nail file sticks. I am amazed by how long they last.
I also use small wire brushes both brass and steel, and the proverbial steel wool.
A bit of a long winded answer to your brass question but I hope this helps.

James;
Thanks for the pictures of the nameplates, making one of those will test my eyesight, The engraving you posted is from the photograph on the top of page 42 in the Crew Works book. The text cites the chimney as designed at 10 foot 3/4 inch from the rail to the top I think that they likely bumped a few in the factory and that might be why they shortened them to the final configuration. Asethetically I prefer the shorter one anyway.

Chris;
Thanks for you compliment.

Stefan;
The Crew Works book is a really great resource for this loco along with James' photographs, a plastic model would be a lot less hassle I think, you should go for it.
Regards Michael

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Postby jameswaterfield » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:50 pm

Just bought this on ebay, so I only have the very lo res version from the ad at the moment till it arrives

James

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Postby michael » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:29 pm

:shock: :shock:
Just bought this on ebay, so I only have the very lo res version from the ad at the moment till it arrives

Image


I am assuming that you mean the book James not the loco Nipper :lol: :lol: :lol:

You will find it very enjoyable I am sure, it is a super little publication.
and If I am wrong and it is a real loco.....well I am really impressed :!: :wink:
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Postby jameswaterfield » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:26 pm

Well we are both wrong!
I already have the book and yes, if "Nipper" turns up I'll raid my savings!
No, it's a contemporary photo I hope- I don't buy digital prints as they are always a disappointment quality wise.
I did think about a 15" version of "Nipper" as a project when my "Effie" is out the way. I'm sure (and quite rightly as it is so original) that "Pet" will never be restored and it would be nice to see how these engines peformed in the flesh

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Postby michael » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:56 pm

James building a new version or one of these engines would be a wonderful project, I do hope that things work out so that it happens.
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Postby michael » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:34 am

Things were a little slower today, first I had to build an insulation box over the manhole for our septic system.

This evening I was able to punch the backplate and sweat to the thick supporting plate, this was exactly the same proceedure as the smokebox end. the only diference was changing rivet punch diameters to make the slightly smaller ones around the firebox.

I found a piece ot tube that was just a few thou too small in diameter for the firebox tube, at first I thought about adding a ring of shimstock to take up the slack, the prospects of setting it up to solder did not really appeal to me. Then I remembered swaeging the end of some brass machining when I made the steam dome for one of the other locos a while back. I did not want to anneal the tube however so I used one of my centers for the Myford and pressed it in the vice to swell the end a few thou it worked well evough to get soldered into place without the shimstock. Had I been thinking I would have made the hole just a smidgen smaller in the first place, who would have known? :roll:

All eventually worked out and the next task is the end of the fiebox this will be less complex than the smokebox end.

The only other thing I realized today is that the top rivets are not actually rivets but hex bolts :oops: I'll think about that one for a bit.

progress to date.

Image
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Postby jameswaterfield » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:17 am

Great! I'm just amazed at the speed and the quality.
BTW I stupidly said these engines were designed by Webb but he did the later, rather odd ones. The first few were designed by John Ramsbottom (I reread the Crewe book last night!)

James
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Postby jameswaterfield » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:22 am

I was thinking about how the engines were dismantled and I imagine, now Michael has pointed it out, that the tanks were a separate item, all rivetted up with the hexgaon set screws put in from the end plates to hold them in place. What you don't realise is that there was a 3 foot tall steam dome hidden through the tank!

James
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