Gnoob Garden RWy

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

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thtroll
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Gnoob Garden RWy

Postby thtroll » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:11 am

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. Ok here is the plan. Small garden layout with an Emett and hopefully all of your influence. The problem; I have not prior experience in G scale nor outdoor railroading. Like I had said before, my internet research lead me here and by the warm welcome, I think I'm in good hands.
One of the hurdles I'm having off the top is the scale. Having modeled in O scale for 10+ years I am having trouble visualizing G Scale. I am going with 1/24 to makes things easier for me. I hope this is still ok.
Here a few sketches to start things off
Image
4-2-2 inspired by Mark Goodwin's PATRICK. I love this loco. Actually, so does my whole family. Thanks Mark.
Instead of a bell, I plan on having a Triangle hanging instead. The 'sand box' will be open and have a shovel, shells and possibly a sand castle. I am going to try and take advantage of the 'eye movement' mechanism to animate the steam dome somehow.
Image
Some cab ideas, I am leaning to the Gothic arch look. I would like some votes and feedback.
Image
Put this in more for the idea of the 'candle stick whistle' at the top of the scan.
Next step is to make up some moch ups. Quick question: What width is good for Gn15 equipment? I have been using 45mm in my sketches. This converts to about 42". Is this a good width?
Cheers, Heath.

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Postby Artizen » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:34 am

Build it! All the ideas sound like good fun - I'm looking forward to progress photos.
Ian Hodgkiss
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Postby Mark Goodwin » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:59 am

Heath,

Thanks for the compliment. In regard of width, 45mm is the size I use as it is the width of the buffer stocks used by Smallbrook Studios - see link below:

http://www.smallbrookstudio.com/page5.php

The rolling stock I use is also supplied by Mike Rayner's "Smallbrook Studio" and I also use the height of the kits as a standard for my own creations (that still have a number of Smallbrook supplied castings - ie always the buffer beams).

Hope you find this useful and good luck with your project.
Mark

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Postby Adrian » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:21 am

G'day Heath
Like your planned loco _ looking good _ personally I would go for the 'gothic' cab _ seems to be more in the Emett style.

I like the idea of the open sandbox, (almost shades of the Darjeeling locos.)
The 45mm seems to be a suitable width ___ it was actually the width of my rolling stock for my, now sadly deceased, Emett inspired layout.

If you are interested in adding some 'animation' to your loco and can't get the 'eye movement' mech to work you can always use some tiny motors and gearboxes.
http://www.gizmoszone.com/shopping/agor ... r;ppinc=1g
(normal disclaimer)

Looking forward to seeing how the little loco progresses,
cheers
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Postby Kevin » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:29 pm

Very nice looking loco, Heath.

Looking forward to seeing this.
Railway Modelling inspired by the Holy Trinity of Rowland Emett, Colonel Fred Stephens and Oliver Postgate.

Also postmaster for The Gower Islands Postal Service.

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Postby thtroll » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:21 pm

Thanks everyone for looking in.
Here is a drawing to the planned area with some photos.
Image
Photo 1
Image
Photo 2
Image
Photo 3
Image
Photo 4
Image
My thoughts are to have a simple track plan that is expandable. You may notice some B-mann track poking out from the hosta in photos 3 and 4.
I was thinking a wire tunnel to support the leaves and and allow easy access to the track.
I've been pondering making the track in sections, so it can be removed for the winter. The sections would be between 1m to 1.5m in length and each have their own electrical pick up from the main bus. The sections would be attached and there would be no track joiners, thus making each section its own block. I think this modular approach will make for easier future expansion, allow for repair of the road bed in Spring and storage for winter.
Has anyone built outdoors in this fashion?
Cheers, Heath.

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:34 am

thtroll wrote:The sections would be attached and there would be no track joiners, thus making each section its own block.

I'm confused, but keep in mind I'm not feeling 100% today
Sections would be attached to what?
The 'no track joiners" means no rial joiners?
If this layout is going to be Gn15 that means HO track and wheels - and them itty-bitty HO wheel flanges are really sensitive to misalignments in the rails.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby thtroll » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:34 am

Sorry, about that. The sections of track would be mounted on a board, I'm thinking sign board (the stuff used for billboards) this would form the base. Then each base could be aligned and connected. Not too sure of the practicality of this.
I agree about the flange issues of HO wheels out of doors. Adrian made mention of a baseboard in my previous thread, and it got me thinking about how to overcome the issues associated with the track being on the ground.
Is drainage an issue that I should be concerned with?
Cheers, Heath.

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16.5mm outdoors

Postby Jon » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:14 pm

Hi Heath.
Sounds a really interesting idea. I've modelled G scale outside and seen my ballast disappear with rain and snow - track then at odd angles!! But 16.5 outdoors would be more difficult. I have a very good book by someone who has managed it with great success. It's "Garden Railways. The Essential Guide to Construction" by Christ Hatton published by Kevin Robinson(Noodle Books). I ordered it from Amazon UK. ISBN(10) 0-9554110-4-1
I wish you luck and look forward to hearing of your success.
Jon.
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Postby thtroll » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:36 pm

Jon, thanks for the lead.
I have put some thoughts on paper. I will scan and post later this PM.
Has anyone hand laid rail larger than code 100 for this scale?
Cheers, Heath.

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Postby thtroll » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:57 am

Here is the drawing of what I have in mind.
Image
Couple of thoughts I could use feed back on.
a. Should the ballast be glued or not. If glued, is drainage going to be an issue. If not glued, could it be recovered by vacuuming it up in fall.
b. Grade transitions. ????
c. Expansion joints. Are they necessary and how to make them if they are.
d. What rail size to use. Code 100 or 125. Peco 16.5 mm ties vs UV
e. Switches. Would trolly switches provide the least problems?
f. Riser height is probably dependent upon the ballast size and material used.
Any other things you might think of, please let me know.
Thanks for looking in.
Cheers, Heath.

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Postby KEG » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:39 am

Code 100 track represents a very light rail in 1 : 24 scale
JL Toeffelholm uses Peco Code 143 on lasered plywood track bed for his railway
http://www.lasergang-shop.de/kreativmeile/node/1375

http://www.die-feldbahnsinnigen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=701&p=4169&sid=1c9565c7491f2d0a4427a1f017ba7c1c#p4169

Plywood is not the best choice for an outdoor garden railway, but redwood or some tropical timber seem to survive outside for a very long time.

Have Fun

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Postby thtroll » Sun May 25, 2014 1:03 am

Well it has been far too long and too many other projects. The rail in the garden is not dead. I think I have it figured out. I was able to pick up quit a bit of Triang code 125 steel track pieces. For a road bed, I am going to try some 1/2 inch composite facia for decks. I ripped it to 1 inch widths. the track is 1 1/2 inches in total width, so 2 pcs with a spacer should do the trick.

Image

Because the material has little flexibility, it needs to be heated and formed for the 18" radius curves. The form were created from 1/2 ply by tracing the track and using the inside and outside cuts to make the forms. this leaves the track piece to use for mapping in the garden. 28 1/4 inches just fits in the BBQ which works to create a 90 degree curve. About 300F for about 5 mins seemed to work to soften the material. The inside and outside pcs of the road bed where then clamped to the form and I will let it cool overnight.

Image

Image

This is a plywood prototype.

Image

Thanks for looking, comments always welcomed.
Cheers, Heath.

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun May 25, 2014 1:26 am

That spline construction looks like a good idea. Have seen articles of it used on layouts all the way from indoor N to outdoor G, 45mm, gauges.
"Bake 'n bend" could be a product trademark!
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby Gerry Bullock » Sun May 25, 2014 7:46 am

Hi Heath,
I would think that steel rail outside will not survive and electrical connectivity could soon be zilch! :cry:
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
http://gn15gnutt.blogspot.com/

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Postby thtroll » Sun May 25, 2014 3:27 pm

Thanks for the input guys. I don't think I mentioned previously that I am planning on RC for the loco. I have a Lose race car already apart. I am slowly rebuilding the controller. I should be a straight forward conversion. Planning on having the battery accessible through a coal load on the tender and seems to be plenty of room for the receiver also.
Thanks for checking in,
Cheers, Heath.

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun May 25, 2014 4:48 pm

thtroll wrote:... I am planning on RC for the loco.
Okay, that would make it just like the regualr 45mm gauge garden railways using on-board batteries thereby making rail conductivity a non-issue.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby thtroll » Sun May 25, 2014 6:23 pm

Update pics. Assembled the road bed spline using the track cutout as a guide for the curve. Drilled and used 1/4" by 2" Galv lag bolts with 'spikes' at each end and two spacers. There will be a short spline (tongue and grove style) to join various pieces together.

Image

Image

Image

Plan is to make several modular type sections to allow for flexibility for the track plan.
Thanks for your support.
Cheers, Heath.

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Postby Si » Mon May 26, 2014 7:41 am

Extremely interesting project.

I'm intrigued as to how you are getting the track bed flat in the side to side plain? It appears that you rely on getting the stakes into the ground dead vertical...but can you really get them in this straight, and are you sure that they will stay like it? Here I'm assuming that you've just hammered them in...perhaps they are in packed holes?

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Postby thtroll » Tue May 27, 2014 6:22 pm

Thanks Si, you raise an interesting point. The end posts are only 3" long. They are meant to reduce any shifting. My thought is that lateral stability and level will come from multiple pieces joined together, and I'm relying on the curves to do just that. I have no prior knowledge of this type of construction outside. I know it is not new and have seen it done with wood. In my research, the common denominator has always been avoid wood if possible. My short term goal is to have a small test oval in this summer. I plan on leaving in over the winter and seeing how it faired next spring. I am hoping that by keeping the sections to no longer than 30 inches, that if a repair is needed, it won't be that difficult. A thought for lateral stability is to add a piece to the bottom that is perpendicular to the road bed. It will be interesting to see how the road bed reacts to the frost heave next spring. For attaching the track, the plan is to use two or three pieces of wood screwed into the road bed. I know, wood, but it can easily be replaced and I think it will hold the track nail better.
This is uncharted territory for me, so your input and observations are very much appreciated.
Cheers, Heath.


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