Motor bogie

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Albert
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Motor bogie

Postby Albert » Fri May 03, 2013 9:55 pm

Hi all,

I thought this: HORNBY X6305 COMPLETE DRIVE UNIT 4 VEP (R2947) MOTOR BOGIE NEW OO GAUGE would make a fine drive unit for a little critter in 1:35.
It came unwired so I had do that first. But it also came with two anti-slip tires and I feel those are to thick. It waggles on three wheels an runs very poorly, when it runs at all.
I tried to change the wheels but the axels are 2,5 mm and I have only 2 mm wheels......

Mission failed, but, Has anyone a good idea how to make this thing run well?

Albert

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Postby Geeky Gecko » Tue May 07, 2013 8:37 pm

Albert,
perhaps these will help:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HORNBY-X6310-4-VEP-R2946-7-R3143-MOTOR-BOGIE-DRIVE-WHEELS-AXLES-NEW-OO-GAUGE-/400396438982?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d397ccdc6
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HORNBY-X6311-4-VEP-R2946-7-POWER-CAR-DUMMY-BOGIE-WHEELS-NEW-OO-GAUGE-/400396439365?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d397ccf45
I have no experience of this unit but you may be abe to replace the wheels with tyres by the wheels without tyres so the unit can collect electricity from 4 wheels. If the unit still rocks try elongating the axle holes a little so the axle can move up and down a little. No guarantees. A bit of weight may help. Good luck.
Stefan

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Re: Motor bogie

Postby WaterleyShunter » Wed May 08, 2013 8:23 am

Albert wrote:Hi all,

I thought this: HORNBY X6305 COMPLETE DRIVE UNIT 4 VEP (R2947) MOTOR BOGIE NEW OO GAUGE would make a fine drive unit for a little critter in 1:35.
It came unwired so I had do that first. But it also came with two anti-slip tires and I feel those are to thick. It waggles on three wheels an runs very poorly, when it runs at all.
I tried to change the wheels but the axels are 2,5 mm and I have only 2 mm wheels......

Mission failed, but, Has anyone a good idea how to make this thing run well?

Albert


Hi Albert

I'm not surprised that the bogie ran poorly. If its an individual motor bogie then it must be fairly old - Hornby switched to using a single central motor driving the bogies via shafts years ago.

Does it have a short, large diameter, 'pancake' motor? If so, then it is the bogie I think it is. I used a few in 00. While they could be relied upon to start when required, getting them to run slowly was impossible. The class 121 'bubble car', for instance, would always jump straight from static to a scale 30mph.

If you want great running the bogie will be useless. It is not 'a fine drive unit'. However, you can make it a usable runner (i.e; will start and stop as commanded and run steadily if rather briskly) by:

1. Adding more pickups on more wheels. These bogies were always designed to operate in tandem with an unpowered bogie which had 4-wheel pickup. If you haven't got more wheels on the loco then you could make direct-to-rail-head pickup skates from springy copper, which shouldn't be too conspicuous if they are chemically blackened (except on the contact surface, of course). If you go down the replacing tyred wheels with normal wheels route then those wheels can of course help out too.

2. Putting a weight over the bogie. The bogie is fairly light so the wheels make poor contact if there is no assistance. All the models these bogies were fitted to had large lumps of ballast weight in the bodyshell.

3. Thorough cleaning of all the electrical contact surfaces. I have a feeling that 'new' may in this case mean 'not previously used' rather than 'recently made', so surfaces such as the wheel back to pickup face surface may have oxidised in storage.

I'm not sure about replacing the traction-tyred wheels with regular wheels. The traction tyres are there to give it sufficient pulling power to handle longer trains. But if the loco is only meant to pull a few wagons on level track then it might not be an issue.

Hope this helps,

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed May 08, 2013 8:40 am

just to help, here is the motor bogie in question
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HORNBY-X6305Y-VEP-MOTOR-BOGIE-DRIVE-UNIT-NEW-SPARES-/330884786188?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item4d0a45280c
It is the current model. Hornby have never used centrally mounted motors driving both bogies. Lima did try it out with the class 20 diesel, and Hornby might have continued this when they took over Lima.
The motor here is the one Hornby replaced its pancake motors . I think its the same motor as put in the ex Lima 4 wheel diesel shunter, which must have pickup on all 4 wheels and no traction tyres . I have been trying to get hold of one of these at the right price, to see if it is suitable for some models.
Oddly I have heard that Hornby might be going back to the pancake motor for some cheaper models. Some will be shocked, but I have no problem . The old pancake motors , once warmed up run well, and are easily maintained. The newer motors are probably un-maintainable, hence the whole unit as a spare part. Sign of the times, throw-away motors.

Just been thinking, its probably better to buy one of the diesel shunters. Don't think they work out much more than the bogie spare unit with extra bits, and they don't need modification. :wink:
http://www.ontracks.co.uk/index.php?page=product&prodID=1501&catID=127
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Postby WaterleyShunter » Wed May 08, 2013 9:37 am

Ah, so its not the bogie I thought it was. Sorry I gave incorrect information.

I never actually thought to check my father's modern Hornby 00 class 50 diesel to check if it had a central motor or a bogie motor. Since other manufacturers now use the central motor I thought this was now standard for bogie diesel chassis.

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Postby Albert » Wed May 08, 2013 10:16 am

Hi All,

Thank you all for your replies!

I think I go for Gecko's suggestion, and additionally put extra weight.

By the way, I found out that it also runs on a 3,7 volt (Lipo) battery, so mayby I can, as a next option, use it for radio control drive.....

Thanks again!


Albert

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Postby backwaterscotland » Wed May 08, 2013 11:09 am

WaterleyShunter wrote:Ah, so its not the bogie I thought it was. Sorry I gave incorrect information.

I never actually thought to check my father's modern Hornby 00 class 50 diesel to check if it had a central motor or a bogie motor. Since other manufacturers now use the central motor I thought this was now standard for bogie diesel chassis.


To confuse things, the class 20, 50, 31, 66, 67 and New HST do use a central motor where as the multiple units and Railroad range (except the class 20) use self contained motor bogies.

The newer Hornby motor bogies actually run quite well once run in.

Andy 8)

Albert
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Postby Albert » Tue May 14, 2013 6:54 pm

Today the spare wheelset arrived. I changed the wheels with tires for those without. The bogie does now what it has to: running.

As an extra I now have two wheelsets with tires and with gears! Those will make fine rc+batterie bogies :wink:

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Thu May 16, 2013 9:58 pm

I decided to get one of the new Lima(Hornby) diesel shunters, assuming it would be fitted with new motor unit.
How wrong could I be. I could understand Hornby not changing anything, but they still use the old pancake motor, but the brushes look different, and fittings to chassis changed for absolutely no reason, except to suit Hornby. The instruction leaflet says something about maintenance free 5 pole motors, so maybe it now has a 5 pole motor.
Thought, maybe it will run better than my old Lima units. No better, possibly worses, when I cleaned wheels on old unit. Not enough momentum, so slow running might be a problem. The old Lima motors got better once warmed up. I have not had a chance to fully test new motor, but I know I won't be buying another. The old Lima ones can be bought a lot cheaper.
Pleased to hear just switching wheels on Hornby bogie works. Considering Hornby thought they did not need traction tyres I would have expected wheels could be swapped, as it was only putting chassis back to how they first introduced it.
How easy was it to fit pickups, or were they already present?
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

Albert
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Postby Albert » Thu May 16, 2013 10:13 pm

How easy was it to fit pickups, or were they already present?


The pickups were there, but no wires from pickups to motor......


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