My First Critter...EFFIE

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Rust Boiler
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Interests: I currently model in 009 narrow gauge but having seen your site I will put that on the back burner and convert to GN15. What a fantastic scale.

My First Critter...EFFIE

Postby Rust Boiler » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:01 pm

Well I have the Mark Smithers book about Sir Arthur Heywood's 15" gauge Railways and came across a line drawing of EFFIE. Well would you believe?..Bang on the right size for GN15. Went to the model shop and got myself a Smokey Joe. Managed to knock a fiver off the price and got it for £28 which I think is reasonable. The wheel spacing and diameter is almost spot on. It was only when I stripped it down to a chassis I realised that the motor is huge and right in the way of otherwise modelling a perfectly round see under boiler. MMhh! ..so afraid there is no way round it but to have a semi circular boiler that hopefully will pass. So far I have cut two pieces of brass to shape and soldered them together and this is what it looks like. The cab front is 1.5mm thick and the slot for it was made by two hacksaw blades together. The boiler is .010" thick, cut with scissors to a card template ( Cornflakes packet ) and then the whole was held together by a heavy weight pressing the shaped boiler downwards onto the cab front and on a piece of flat wood. I smeared loads of flux on it and soldered it together with one of those mini gas torches and multi core LEAD solder!
Heat was applied to the cabfront area as this is thicker stock than the boiler wrap. Waited till it got damned hot then simply poked the solder in the crevice and worked around to the other side.
Soldering is NOT hard folks. You get frightened by it but give it a try.
The secret is Cleanliness ( Wire wool the parts ). USE FLUX !! and lead solder if you can get it and to make sure the work is somehow clamped together. DAS modelling clay is good and even make a small jig from wood. Most of all, the work must be HOT so the solder FLOWS. You heat up and keep touching the solder on the work till it does flow. Hope this helps. You HAVE got the skills... quite definitely. Very clever forum.
I have two pics but don't know how to get them in this blog. I have tried dragging them in but doesn't work. Sorry folks. Perhaps someone can educate me?
Pete [img]http://my.gn15.info/img_0323.jpg[/img]
Last edited by Rust Boiler on Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
It's not what you make it's how you make it.

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Postby chris stockdale » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:44 pm

Hi Pete,

I've moved your post as I think it will be happier here.

As for photos, take look at the info in the section cunning titled, 'New here? Read this first.' :D

Hopefully that will tell you what you need to know. Any probs, just shout!

Cheers,

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Postby Mark Goodwin » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:58 pm

Hi Pete,

Go into "Blether" - this bit here: Photo hosting: http://my.gn15.info
Then follow the instructions. Browse computer, select photo, click and then don't forget to resize. When done, copy and paste to your message.
Hope this helps.

Good luck,
Mark

Rust Boiler
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Interests: I currently model in 009 narrow gauge but having seen your site I will put that on the back burner and convert to GN15. What a fantastic scale.

Still trying to get the pics on. Really sorry I am so dim.

Postby Rust Boiler » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:51 pm

[img]http://my.gn15.info/img_0323.jpg[/img]

[img [img]http://my.gn15.info/img_0323.jpg[/img] [/img]
[img]http://my.gn15.info/img_0326.jpg[/img]

I am copying and pasting the code in the yellow box directly to the box I am now typing in but it does not show up as a link.
Really sorry to be so useless.
Go back to making trains.
Pete
It's not what you make it's how you make it.

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Postby Artizen » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:29 am

Image

Image
Image
Ian Hodgkiss
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West of Worcester (in progress)
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Rust Boiler
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Interests: I currently model in 009 narrow gauge but having seen your site I will put that on the back burner and convert to GN15. What a fantastic scale.

Smokey Joe Chassis for my EFFIE

Postby Rust Boiler » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:17 am

On test running the New Smokey Joe I have noticed that I have to crank up the current a lot before she moves then when she DOES move, goes like a rocket till I crank it down again. The controller I use is pure DC and no feedback.
Do I need a feedback controller or what can you advise?
Pete
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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:48 am

Seems to be a common thing with Smokey Joe's, some work well, some work like the one you have. You might need to give it a good running in and add some weight before it will work as it might be a little stiff because it's new. The controller should be OK.
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Postby martin » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:47 am

More_Cats_Than_Sense wrote:Seems to be a common thing with Smokey Joe's, some work well, some work like the one you have. You might need to give it a good running in and add some weight before it will work as it might be a little stiff because it's new. The controller should be OK.


I agree all of my Smokey Joe's have driven like a bat out of hell from new... set up a circle and let the thing run in for 20 minutes or so. Also before you finish your model building in a bit of weight can help too
I turned to the darkside, I moved to Gnottinghamshire! http://soarvalleygardenrailway.com
Gn15 Santa's Sleigh Launching Stationhttp://gn15.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9815

Rust Boiler
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Interests: I currently model in 009 narrow gauge but having seen your site I will put that on the back burner and convert to GN15. What a fantastic scale.

Smokey Joe Chassis for my EFFIE

Postby Rust Boiler » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:49 am

Okay, I will make up an oval of track and run it in first.
I will hold back on the expense of a feedback controller until run in.
I made the controller myself. All my 009 stock (10 Locos) run perfectly with it so I don't think it's the controller.
I have just bought a PERCY from ebay for my next project , a Mercury and I hope to hear from Mike soon hopefully with a few tips.
Tell me...Will the Percy run the same or is it known to be a good or bad chassis?
For an 0-4-0 what would you say would be a really nice slow running smooth chassis. I don't mind paying for quality as there is nothing more annoying than temperamental chassae.
Pete
It's not what you make it's how you make it.

Rust Boiler
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Interests: I currently model in 009 narrow gauge but having seen your site I will put that on the back burner and convert to GN15. What a fantastic scale.

Further Developements

Postby Rust Boiler » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:11 am

Smoke box done, hand rails on, Unwanted chassis bits sawn and filed off.
Don't know whether to make authentic steam chests and valve gear or just leave it. I am a firm believer in if it works leave it. :wink:http://my.gn15.info/r.php?p=img_0328.jpg
It's not what you make it's how you make it.

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Postby martin » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:06 pm

The Bachmann 0n30 Porter has a nice mechanisim. in this scale all I've used is the Percy, Smokey Joe, Porter and the Tenshodo Spud.

The Percy is not much different to the Smokey Joe
I turned to the darkside, I moved to Gnottinghamshire! http://soarvalleygardenrailway.com
Gn15 Santa's Sleigh Launching Stationhttp://gn15.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9815

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Postby Pierre_Berry » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:51 pm

Good work, I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread. :D
Last edited by Pierre_Berry on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Artizen » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:38 am

Image

Now that's quite tasty!

I know you don't want to hear this - buuuuuuuut I have a Smokey which I chipped and ever since it runs really slooooooow and controllably. Sometimes there is a reason behind digital control after all! Even betterer would be to go RC but then you need to hide all the batteries.
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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:49 am

Artizen wrote:
I know you don't want to hear this - buuuuuuuut I have a Smokey which I chipped and ever since it runs really slooooooow and controllably. Sometimes there is a reason behind digital control after all!


DCC modules act as Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) controllers. They give the full voltage across the motor even at slow motor speeds, they just vary the length of time they apply it. PWM does have the unfortunate side effect of generating excess heat within the motor though due to the current driven by the full voltage.

Gnice looking build by the way :D
Barry Weston



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The only thing that keeps me sane, is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes....



Never knowingly sensible!

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Postby Artizen » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:29 am

Thanks for the tip on heat Barry. So that means I should run Smokey for short periods and check temperatures otherwise I could burn it out? (Smokey is a Chinese build if that makes any difference to the choice of motor.)
Ian Hodgkiss

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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:24 am

The motor should be fine, the chips are quite good nowadays. Just do a couple of tests, run it at 1/8th speed for ten minutes and check the motor. It's only small motors or coreless ones that have problems with heat. A good lump of weight against the motor to act as a heatsink is always a good idea for small motors. It's one of the reasons Z scale locos shouldn't have the metal body removed when being modified into NG models. BEC Motor Bogies have a whitemetal chassis which act as a heatsink, they are designed for PWM and Feedback controllers.
Barry Weston



If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer.



The only thing that keeps me sane, is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes....



Never knowingly sensible!

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Interests: I currently model in 009 narrow gauge but having seen your site I will put that on the back burner and convert to GN15. What a fantastic scale.

Smokey Joe Motors.

Postby Rust Boiler » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:14 pm

I don't fully understand dcc but I think it will be expensive to chip it?
Anyway I have diagnosed why a brand new Smokey Joe doesnt do anything until cranked right up and then it rockets off!..I separated the motor from the worm wheel , applied a test lead to it and slowly cranked on the juice. Nothing!!!! until I had almost wound it full circle. Okay ..me thinks.It's new so I ran it in for one hour at half speed. I then tested for slow running and same Simpsons!!!! The problem is THE MOTOR...sohhh I stripped the motor down. Very easy!..Armature rotates in bushes okay but to make sure I put some brasso on the spindle and other end in my mini drill and ran it for a minute. I noticed that the 3 core motor was very jerky and rough just by rotating the shaft with the fingers. It appeared almost that the magnets were TOO STRONG???. I got on the web and read about magnetism and polarity and timing..Ohh Ohhh sod this I thought!!!
In a nut shell I am going to remotor it with a 5 core motor for £11.00 new. The size seems to be right but I am still waiting for it to arrive. When I have done it and it works shall I give the details of how to do it and where to get the motors from?
When I say how to do it, I mean the adapting of the motor mount for the new motor.
I have a hunch because some run okay and some do not , That the motors are not assembled correctly. ( Hit and miss). Maybe the magnets ARE polarised and could be the wong way wound if they came from China or made by Jonathon Woss!
Pete
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Postby Thin Layman » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:22 pm

I have a smoky joe I am sloooowwly bashing at present (gone back to OO at the mo) and it works a lot better since one of the other modellers at a club I irregularly attend told me to run it in in both directions for a good long time (no other modifications to date). He had a polite rant about how many people don't do this and then complain about their locomotives not 'working'.
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:08 pm

recommended run in time is about 30min each way. Probably one of the most popular activities at our club, as most members use club as a social gathering(helped as there is a bar downstairs). :lol::lol::lol:
Even locos bought second hand should be run in, as never certain how much use they have had.
We have a simple 'trainset' type layout which is ideal, and has ability to switch between normal and DCC controllers.
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Running in my Smokey Joe

Postby Rust Boiler » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:39 pm

Okay I have taken note of your kind responses and I have run the thing backwards and forwards till I nearly fell asleep!..Bit like watching a tennis match. I must admit, it DOES run better now, still needs quite some current to start it off but then when i wind down the current immediately afterwards it does move acceptably slowly. When the 5 core motors arrive I shall at least try on though. Bought a second hand Percy on ebay. Does'nt run at all so that will be on it's way back. Win a few lose a few. Also someone recommended the Porter chassis. I bought one and it is a smashing locomotive. Brand new in box with working lights la la la. I feel a right butcher knowing that I am going to strip it a just for it's chassis. I would describe it's slow motion as nigh on perfect. I will use that chassis for my next project, a Mercury. I am so impressed with the one Mike Mott made. I am beating myself up over constructing everything in brass. Why am I doing this? as you guys are making lovely models using mostly styrene sheet. I think, like Mike, I will in future use a mixture.
Just waiting for my GW models riveting press to arrive. That is going to be immense fun. OTT I know but I love tools, jigs, machines blah blah.
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:04 pm

A Better 040 chassis from Hornby is the Bill/Ben in the Thomas range. Unfortunately discontinued, so commands higher prices on ebay. Also going up to an 060, try the Jouef/Electrotren Junior 060 locos produced by Hornby International.
Simon Dawson
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Re: Running in my Smokey Joe

Postby martin » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:21 am

Rust Boiler wrote: I am beating myself up over constructing everything in brass. Why am I doing this? as you guys are making lovely models using mostly styrene sheet.


If you are happy working in brass don't beat yourself up. Personally I find styrene awkward to cut. I'm a silversmith and if I could afford it would make all my models from silver I would as its such a dream to cut and shape!
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Gn15 Santa's Sleigh Launching Stationhttp://gn15.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9815

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:55 am

everyone has their preferred material to build from.
Two main considerations
Availability/cost and your own abilities/skills.

There have been so,e superb models shown here built from paper and cardboard, both nice and affordable. I dug out an old Gn15 pizza layout I built a few years ago, safely in a small box stored securely in tunnel was a cardboard bodied loco and coach.

I like using plastic, especially those Plastruct pieces, but often run out of items I need to finish something, so am trying to look for sustainable materials.
And now I have discovered 3D printing, I can design and build 'virtually' at no cost.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Postby Trevor Coburn » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:28 pm

Hi Pete,

My preferred material for locos would be nickle silver, then brass, and at a push tin. And of course working in Gn means that scale(ish) thickness can be used. Wood for rolling stock.

But living were I do, moving stock around in my "carry-on" limits me to plasticard. Card board is a non-starter as the high humidity here would kill it.

However as you are obviously comfortable & skilled metal basher, keep up the good work!.

Trevor.
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Rust Boiler
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Interests: I currently model in 009 narrow gauge but having seen your site I will put that on the back burner and convert to GN15. What a fantastic scale.

Percy remotored with a V8!!

Postby Rust Boiler » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:30 pm

Image

Image

Thanks for all the comments and help. I just was not happy with the shoddy running of Percy so remotored it endex. Here's how if anyone's interested and I apologise if this has already been done. I am just being a irritating Newby!!
The old motor was removed and the worm dipped in boiling water for 15 seconds, pulled off and whilst still warm, slipped on to the new motor which I got from ebay for £11.00 and they are still for sale right now. It is a very well made and massively solid Flat can 5 pole skew wound motor like the Mashima 1833. The outer can casing is .018" thick anodised steel. It is made to last. It preforms faultlessly. Well Well chuffed ( Sorry!)
As you can see I have cut off bits of chassis I did not want and removed the Piston rod valve thingey as the critter will end up a Diema like Diesel.
The motor cage was knifed off and motor mount binned. Then I very carefully knifed down the two sides of the plastic chassis until the motor sat at the right angle ( Don't overdo it) and meshed with the worm wheel. Before SEWING the motor on I soldered on two new wires to the contacts so that they face rearwards.
Then two 1mm holes drilled through both sides of the chassis where you see the cotton thread attached to the motor.
Waxed the thread with beeswax and with a needle I sewed the motor on tying a knot at the top to secure, cut the wires to length and soldered them to the motor terminals.
Test ran the chassis to make sure the worm and wheel were nicely in engagement. Not too tight not to loose. Chassis ran like melted butter, Big smiles. It worked!!
I then finished up by epoxying the motor at strategic points to the chassis.
Wait ten minutes to harden then Test run again.
Bearing in mind that this motor is brand new and not ran in I clocked it as taking 28 seconds to cover 38" of Peco Flexi Track. Now that is SLOW and I am more than pleased in fact ecstatic with the new manned up Percy.
Sorry If I have deviated from my first critter EFFIE but I hope it's all related..Ie getting a decent chassis to run our critters on.
Still waiting for my rivet press!! to continue with EFFIE. Will keep you posted. I just want to get my hands on it and rivet the hell out of everything.
:D :D :D
It's not what you make it's how you make it.


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