3D printed loco

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3D printed loco

Postby Thorness » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:23 pm

I have taken the plunge and bought one of Tom's (Tebee) 3D printed loco bodies for Gn15 from Shapeways.
This is designed to fit a Smokey Joe chassis.
The component parts:
Image
Obviously the lowered footplate requires the chassis to be modified.
Chassis modified to fit:
Image

Body on chassis:
Image
Image
Image

One issue that is immediately obvious is that the inside of the footplate will need some surgery to allow room for the wheels to rotate:
Image

Levers and gauges etc need to be added to the cab and also buffer beams and couplings. There is plenty of room inside the body shell to add lots of weight, the body on its own is very light weight.

I will try to keep this up to date but don't expect any thing too quickly!!

Cheers
Don

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Postby Nevadablue » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:51 pm

That's going to be a nice little Loco. Now I need to go find the source. :D

They definitely need to work on their site. A search for 'locomotive' turned up 59 pages of stuff, much not for sale. Adding Gn15 to the loco search found nothing. Tebee or tebee found nothing. A search for Gn15 found pages of stuff. I'm on the track now. :D
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Postby martin » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Nevadablue wrote:That's going to be a nice little Loco. Now I need to go find the source. :D

They definitely need to work on their site. A search for 'locomotive' turned up 59 pages of stuff, much not for sale. Adding Gn15 to the loco search found nothing. Tebee or tebee found nothing. A search for Gn15 found pages of stuff. I'm on the track now. :D


http://www.shapeways.com/shops/tebee
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Postby Nevadablue » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:50 pm

Thanks! :)
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Postby Thorness » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:18 pm

Bit of further work done to make chassis fit and run
Holes in footplate:
Image

the wheels will now go round!
Image

Cylinders also enlarged.

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Postby KEG » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:25 pm

I appreciate that someone in here actually is working on a Tebee Gn15 design. The Alpha and Beta Testers should get a fee from the maker for their work. After all it promotes the product.

The Shapeway page ist OK to work with, if you know what you are looking for.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/2016247/gn15-side-tank-with-weatherboard.html?li=search-results&materialId=6


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Postby Thorness » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:48 pm

The one I have is this one
http://www.shapeways.com/model/1559915/ ... terialId=6.
It's probably a bit more complicated because of the lowered footplate.
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Postby tebee » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:36 pm

KEG wrote:I appreciate that someone in here actually is working on a Tebee Gn15 design. The Alpha and Beta Testers should get a fee from the maker for their work. After all it promotes the product.

........


Have Fun

Juergen


They do get a discount - my markup on these is less than if it where a fully proved design - typically in the 20-30% range.It would need to me much more again if it were marked as a kit.

There are 2 problems with producing proved designs rather that just what I think will work - sometimes I miss things like the dropped footplate here.

1st is I would produce dramatically fewer designs each year, the time taken to refine and reiterate is probably longer than the original design.

2nd is the cost. If I do a test print first I have to sell on average 4 of the improved design to recover it's cost ( assuming 25% markup) Gn15 is a very small market, my Gn15 designs probably sell one every 2 years. OK if they were proved first I might sell a few more but i'd probably have to increase the price by around 33%.

I liken the way I work to the modern fashion for agile programing. You produce a product that is good enough for most people, then you refine it later based on their comments on it.

This loco is based on a combination of two of the Spooner Quarry locos - Kathleen and Ida I think from memory.

This is a link to my Gn15 products https://www.shapeways.com/shops/tebee?section=Gn15

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Postby KEG » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:15 am

liken the way I work to the modern fashion for agile programing. You produce a product that is good enough for most people, then you refine it later based on their comments on it.



What happens, if unexperienced customer buy something, which does not work. e.g. this http://www.shapeways.com/model/261744/gn15-open-coach-1.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6

You can not fit eight 1 . 24 passenger in a 107 mm long coach. You need at least 140 mm.

I very much trust something, which has been proof build. Either by a customer or the developer himself. I love this kind of service and quality, offered by a friend of mine:
[url]http://www.die-feldbahnsinnigen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1482[img]

The proof built products can always be sold via forums or Ebay, so the maker does not nessessarely loose too much money.

I am still very happy with my Gn15 Bagnall, which was a test assembly.
[/img][/url]http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=8930&highlight=bagnall[url]

Have Fun

Juergen[/url]

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Postby KEG » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:19 am

liken the way I work to the modern fashion for agile programing. You produce a product that is good enough for most people, then you refine it later based on their comments on it.



What happens, if unexperienced customer buy something, which does not work. e.g. this http://www.shapeways.com/model/261744/gn15-open-coach-1.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6

You can not fit eight 1 . 24 passenger in a 107 mm long coach. You need at least 140 mm.

I very much trust something, which has been proof build. Either by a customer or the developer himself. I love this kind of service and quality, offered by a friend of mine:
http://www.die-feldbahnsinnigen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1482

The proof built products can always be sold via forums or Ebay, so the maker does not nessessarely loose too much money.

I am still very happy with my Gn15 Bagnall, which was a test assembly.
[url]http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=8930&highlight=bagnall[url][/url]

Have Fun

Juergen

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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:02 am

KEG wrote:
liken the way I work to the modern fashion for agile programing. You produce a product that is good enough for most people, then you refine it later based on their comments on it.



What happens, if unexperienced customer buy something, which does not work. e.g. this http://www.shapeways.com/model/261744/gn15-open-coach-1.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6

You can not fit eight 1 . 24 passenger in a 107 mm long coach. You need at least 140 mm.

I very much trust something, which has been proof build. Either by a customer or the developer himself. I love this kind of service and quality, offered by a friend of mine:
http://www.die-feldbahnsinnigen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1482

The proof built products can always be sold via forums or Ebay, so the maker does not nessessarely loose too much money.

I am still very happy with my Gn15 Bagnall, which was a test assembly.
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=8930&highlight=bagnall

Have Fun

Juergen
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:15 am

Shapeways are bringing in new options for designers and potential buyers.
One is called 'First to Try', not sure exactly what effect this has. There is also a 'Beta' option, which allows/encourages feedback.
One of the biggest problems for me has been print failure, and Shapeways have put in a lot of extra things. They have been very good at contacting me about possible problems, but the best change is payment system which now(or very soon) only takes payment when order is completed successfully. This gets round the problem of refund vouchers and if you are a first time buyer and a print gets rejected you might not decide to re-order so there is no voucher sitting there.
As for test printing models, I tend to get prints of ones I am interested in. I can usually judge now what will work OK. Unfortunately this has meant I have a lot of models I can't use , but will find a use sometime. 3D printing was originally a prototyping tool, and I accept that.
I use the excess perfect models to show off to others on my exhibition stand, and have so far found when people see the models in reality they are more likely to order one .
One feature of my design software is a drawing feature, I find this extremely useful to check out fittings for chassis etc, especially with larger more expensive models. Many errors are picked up at this stage, and the only cost is the paper and ink of the 2D print.
I have been contacted by other companies offering 3D printing services but plan to stay with Shapeways for now. They were set up under Phillips umbrella, so not only do they have money behind them, but also the technical know-how to keep up with latest developments.

Specialist lower interest models are a suitable area for 3D printing, but I have noticed other methods coming in such as lazer cut kits and now crowd-funding is being used to generate the cash to development new models. With supply/production problems in China I think this will be the way forward for the more popular areas of our hobby. Basically this means customers stumping up the cash up front, and the designer then can go to manufacturer with cash, and delivery is normally much quicker. I can see the mainstream companies having to use this idea or die due to lack of product to sell.
Interesting times.
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Postby Brack » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:44 pm

Tom/Tebee wouldn't be able to produce the range of models he did if he'd had to test print each iteration. I work very differently - a finished high quality product as I basically only design for myself, so I don't mind having to print one. The key thing is Tebee is trying to make money from his extensive range, whilst for me it is a hobby so I can get the loco I want. Having said that, I've sold only 3 of those Sipats in 2 years (all of which feature on here and look pretty good in my opinion). A rather poor return on the time I spent designing it really as it took a few months of battling shapeways to make them print it with the detail I wanted.

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:33 pm

I might add that ultimately I hope to make money from my models. I started in 1/35 because of the obvious military connection, and was then persuaded to produce models in other scales. It has cost me a lot but a lot less that developing one model for injection moulding.
Tom and I use similar software, but in very different ways. Tom uses a modular system, which I have not got to understand yet, where-as I design each model separately(sometimes from same root though). This means that I can go through each design and hopefully spot any problems. I now only print models I want to use, and can usually be pretty certain others will be OK.
My interest is only really with models of real engines, less imagination required, and I still have plenty of ideas for future.
Just been playing with upping scales.
1/19 (SM32) is a possibility, but the Decauville steam loco body would cost about £200. In this scale the protected Simplex would be about just under £100, and the 20hp version(would require some more design work) , about £60, although that might be less if I went through design line by line.
For 1/24th scales the prices are about half that.
I did do some tests with 7/8th foot scale, but the price went through the roof. I thought about re-doing cab on one of my Decauville inspired locos, and the cab alone would have been about£70. I might see how much the roof on its own would cost, as this was the difficult part to make from sheet plastic.

It hasn't cost anything to do the above, and I am unsure if I would test print them unless I wanted the model. The 1/24 20hp Simplex might be suitable for Gn15, but as I said I need to work on the design as its pretty basic. Got away with that on smaller scales.
Simon Dawson
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Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Postby ian holmes » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:25 am

Very nice looker. Amazing what you can do with 3D printing. I just don't have the patience to work with the computer software to produce the models myself. This is very nice a very believable model.
Kudos to the designer.
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Postby louvain » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:53 am

ian holmes wrote:Very nice looker. Amazing what you can do with 3D printing. I just don't have the patience to work with the computer software to produce the models myself. This is very nice a very believable model.
Kudos to the designer.


I second this - as an oldie I haven't the patience/eyesight/motivation etc to learn all the new skills and as a consequence am very grateful to those that do!

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:35 pm

I am no spring chicken, but I did spend 20 years in IT, and have a maths degree, so geometric drawings should be easy. Only thing is I had no engineering training, so had to learn how to design my models in a totally new way. Makes sense now.
I do have a lot of respect for those who can sit down and build a model good enough to look real. I do not have enough patience when building models, including kits.I don't want to be held back by reading instructions, and want something finished. One reason many of my models look like they are on the way to scrap yard. Designing models on computer is far easier even when computer is not really powerful enough.
Simon Dawson
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Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Postby tebee » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:00 am

I think I have too much imagination - that's why I like designing freelance stuff.

I too come from an IT background - In my case I worked for 35 years in it. I helps doing computer stuff especially the modular system I use to make similar but different locos which is very much like programing.

It also helps that I'm dyslexic = one f the things we are good at is manipulating shapes in 2-d or 3-d space.

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Postby Thorness » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:01 pm

Slow progress but this it so far:

Firebox door and brake standard added
Image

Primed
Image


Primer rubbed down
Image

Sorry about the variations in the lighting, sometimes the camera decides it needs the flash other times it doesn't.

Just been sprayed with the body colour.


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Don

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Postby Thorness » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:00 pm

More painting done:

Image

after rub down and respray
Image

Ready for final details
Image


Cheers
Don

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Postby Mark Goodwin » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:26 pm

Hi Don,

The paint finish looks good on this model after what looked to be a fairly rough surface. I've been toying with buying one of the 3D designs, but what you've done here with this nice little engine looks really good and I may have to take the plunge. I can't wait to see the loco lined and finished.
Cheers,
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Postby adamc » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:34 am

I do like how the surface is coming out smooth. Had been put off previously by the layering from the printing process, but it does look like it can be taken back to a flat surface.

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Postby Thorness » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:00 am

The surface as delivered is quite rough but not very conducive to being rubbed down due to the flexibility. After priming I think the rubbing down is effectively removing the paint from the high spots. Some bits are quite difficult to get at! It's a good job the material is flexible though or that gallery rail at the back of the footplate would be in several pieces by now.

I plan to do some very simple lining using a recently acquired bow pen.

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:36 am

Opinions on the surface vary. I actually like the rough surface for some models. I am not trying to replicate factory fresh prototypes, but ones which have actually done some work. The ridging can be a problem on curved surfaces such as boilers and roofs, but easily sorted.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Postby Thorness » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:02 am

rue_d_etropal wrote:Opinions on the surface vary. I actually like the rough surface for some models. I am not trying to replicate factory fresh prototypes, but ones which have actually done some work. The ridging can be a problem on curved surfaces such as boilers and roofs, but easily sorted.


The rough surface is not a problem in some areas like the footplate but obviously if you want a smooth appearance (tank sides) it is more of an issue. At least in this scale the details like the rivets are reasonably big so not easily lost under the several layers of paint.
I left the footplate and the cab interior as it was and I think it looks okay. Overall I am quite pleased and would certainly buy another one, not that I need any more locos at the moment!

Cheers
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