Industrial gnine

G scale on 9mm track? Are you mad? If so, this is the forum for you.

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Industrial gnine

Postby AndyA » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:48 am

I'll put my posting where my mouth is, then. This is from an early thread on inside framed wagons. We'd identified that at least one 8inch gauge prototype existed, although of a very different shape to what follows. I was responding to Jim Snee's inside frame design as well, and...

...partly at work and partly on the train home, I built an inside frame wagon in 9mm gauge, both to get it out of my system and to check that the mechanism I had previously suggested would actually work.

It did. Since I only had some 14mm wheels (regauged by trial and error and sliced in the workshop at work) I had to shim the chassis piece. The strapping round the ends holds the keeper-plate in place and the chassis did dismantle:

Image

The little collars were card and wuld eventually have worn away with repeated dismantling, but the wagon lost a battle with gravity whilst the traverser (see next post) was being played with.

I'd built a 9mm push trolley earlier, to about 16mm loading gauge, but here I allowed myself 24mm width, giving a loading gauge of 27mm which seems about right. The tub was intended to be a half-tonne capacity, but due to working by trial and error came out slightly smaller at 24mm x 28mm by 32mm. I intended to add corner strapping and fillets to it, but instead I gave it two coats of sanding sealer, being very careful of the fumes.

Image

The figure is the kneeling mechanic from the Fujimi set, a bit of a cheat because the idea of prototype narrow tubs was for vertical seams, where he could stand up, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

I'll pull the traverser out of the other thread, and then post some quickie drawings I've done.

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the micro-traverser

Postby AndyA » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:58 am

This happened a bit after the wagon, and in the second photo is the wagon cleaned up, the only pic I have of it. I had to collect a package from DHL, a long way from home and I have to do it by public transport or taxi. It being a nice day I elected to walk and although it's a lot further than I remembered, I found a new footpath I never knew existed, which runs through the Ford car-transporter loading place and up close and personal with the container depot. Not maybe as romantic as walking out to see the ducks on Sunday, but interesting nonetheless.

I watched some Transits being loaded, just like getting a car onto Le Shuttle, and then turned my attention to the unloading of the early morning down train from Manchester. This brought back memories of working on a system for Felixstowe to reduce the total number of movements made - a fine art.

I remembered Jim Snee's posting about 9mm wagons fitting across a G scale wagon

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=489&start=15

and the discussion about having the traverser in full view on Chris Mears's double ended traverser concept:

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=348&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

When I got back I quickly bodged a carrier wagon. It's one of Steve's channel underframes originally decked in treadplate for Gnordlys, but I set some code 85 FB rail into it.

Image

I did wash it with yellow as well but it doesn't show in the pic. I'm better with the E300 these days, but the layout and stock are no more (and neither is the blu-tack Hagis, for those with long memories. Naturally, the loading gauge I'd settled on for the tub was too large for this: withy little 'real' industrial prototype to work from, standards are always going tp be a problem.

Image

Now set up a sorting game. Those on the far side will be three tiny scotch kilns, to be loaded with three kinds of 'stuff' for firing. Originally I thought bricks, but not many standard size bricks will fit so I figure handmade tiles. Three different types, placed at random and to be sorted into pairs.

This of course is the basic setup for my brickworks, and the loco I sketched on the train is destined for there as well.

Don't think one can make a puzzle in G much smaller than this. With the loco I might even build a proper one. If I can get FTP access, I'll post the drawings based on the London Brick Co. loco Steve sent me a pic of; if not, tonight instead.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:24 am

Andy, that is not fair, I only just managed to resist doing a little 9mm gauge tub like that the first time you posted it. Now you are putting temptation out there again :) . I'm not sure I can be strong enough this time :) .
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Postby ian holmes » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:39 pm

Sorry to hear that the "layout" is no more Andy.
But I still reckon its worth featuring on the layouts section of Gnine.info.
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Postby AndyA » Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:53 am

Well, I may make a new one, spurred on by some inspiration from Steve. He posted me a copy of a pic of hte London Brick Company loco featured in the Middleton Press 'Narrow Gauge in Surrey". I intend to build a shortened version of it for the brick kiln traverser layout, but, spurred on by Steve's Ant and Titch, I'm looking at a gnine version as well.

I sketched the stuff on the train yesterday. The original was 2'11" gauge, with the wheels on the outside (oh, and third rail power):

Image

I put all three track gauges in the first sketch. A Gn15 version works quite well since the bodywork doesn't look over-width:

Image

For gnine, I narrowed the thing to 27mm. Then I had to shorten it a bit and make it a bit lower to maintain the look and feel. But, as Steve found, I didn't need to make it a lot shorter or lower.

Image

Although I'm really after the Gn15 version, I'll probably mock up the gnine one first, to get a better idea of the liberties one can take with the body before designing a very short Gn15 version.

I may get time to do that tonight, otherwise it'll be three weeks until I'm back.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:23 am

Your proportions look pretty good Andy, wish I could post the pic, but as the book it comes from is only a couple of years old and still in print, copyright is obviously an issue. The Gn15 version could be built on a Tenshodo fairly easily, but the Gnine version has me stuck for an obvious power unit unless the drive unit is moved forward, leaving more of an overhang at the driving end. Doing that opens all sorts of possibilities, just tried a few mechanisms against your drawing and a Farish 08, Bachmann Plymouth and Kato Tram, could all be used with a bit of playing around with the floor height, I'm sure there must be more options. If I had a bit of time I would be quite tempted to have a go at building one for the fun of it, such a simple shape, it wouldnt take long.
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Postby ChrisMears » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:29 pm

This brick loco sounds interesting, do you have a picture that you could share? (Of the London Brick company loco).

Thanks
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Postby ChrisMears » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:50 pm

:oops: just re-read the thread and realized the obvious copyright issues... great thread still! :D

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Postby ian holmes » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:51 pm

S'allright Chris
I wouldn't mind seeing the piccy too...

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Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:00 pm

ChrisMears wrote::oops: just re-read the thread and realized the obvious copyright issues... great thread still! :D


Well, there is a chance, that I might see the photographer tomorrow at Perrygrove. If I can get the ok from him I will post it here. No promises though, he might not be there, but usually is.
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here's the beast

Postby AndyA » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:10 pm

well, a mock-up at least. Not so much a printy as a foldy. Three pieces of card:

Image

Having slimmed it down, I compared it with the 16,5mm SPUD I have left, and if I made it shorter, it'd still fit. And the grocer chappie would still have space to stand. It's supposed to have a handrail about six inches above the dash. and I didn't fit the column on the right with the speed controller on it.

more news after I've had two weeks thinking time. If the fot has any other pics?...

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Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:38 pm

Yup, thats pretty much captured the character of it Andy. I think because it is to a narrower gauge and the wheels are not visable, some sort of cover or axle bearing on the side might work, or I suppose even a cutout. Just thinking it would break up the side a bit and look less like a jelly mould :) . For those wondering, the prototype was 2' 11" gauge and the wheels were on the outside.
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Postby AndyA » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:24 pm

Yep, for the "real thing" I was going to make the lower box (the one that surrounds the chassis) a little narrower, and drop the top box over it in places to add completely bogus insets where the axles might be, with circular cover plates for lubrication. Coupled with the handrail down the sides and what looks like a step partway up each side, I think that'll make enough detail to break it up a bit.

What you'd presumably already sussed, but I needed to go through the process of discovering for myself was that: the full width 2'11" body looks okay on 15" track (but I suspect that this prototype is pretty much unique there) and that the reduced size gnine body will work just as well in Gn15.

Sppokily, the shape is sort of like the Guiness steamer I originally made for Cuddle. Nah. Surely not. I MUST RESIST.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:03 pm

AndyA wrote:Sppokily, the shape is sort of like the Guiness steamer I originally made for Cuddle. Nah. Surely not. I MUST RESIST.


The similarity did strike me too, the basic shape is almost the same.

It may be a one off, but it does bear a resembalance to vehicles produced by a company called Lansing, who specialised in electric vehicles for material handling, often found at airports and on mainline station platforms. I think they also produced tractors for moving aircraft around at airports. More research needed :)
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Postby Peter » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:38 pm

I did notice the closeness to the Guinness locos too.
The design just looks right.
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Lansing

Postby Catweasel » Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:05 am

The company you are probably thinking of is Lansing Bagnall, now Lansing Linde. Lansing were merged with Linde back in the early nineties and were known for their electric trucks.They also developed the fork lift reach truck. Still making trucks here in Basingstoke,as well as other sites.They also built gurt great big'uns for use on aircraft carriers.I think Ark Royal had 5 on board.The range can be found here.
http://www.linde-mh.co.uk/02_products/02_xrange/index.html
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Re: Lansing

Postby Steve Bennett » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:03 am

Catweasel wrote:The company you are probably thinking of is Lansing Bagnall, now Lansing Linde.


Thats the ones Henry, they look a bit more modern than the ones I was thinking of :) but they do still have a bit of the old style lurking in there.
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Postby AndyA » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:58 am

Archives for the postwar Lansing-Bagnall Limited are at the Churchill Centre in Cambridge. Loads of brochures, press cuttings and so on. Fascinating stuff, but many many boxes and when I was there in the nineties, the handlist was, shall we say, rudimentary in the extreme. :)

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gnine-gn15 foldy

Postby AndyA » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:56 am

There was just time before the taxi arrives to adjust and post the four bits of card that fold up into the little lokey prototype. Print out to 55mm frame length (printing factor 70 from Paintshop Pro.

It will fit over either a 24,5mm SPUD or an 'N' chassis with vertical motor.

Image

The square thing is the bas ethat fits over the chassis, cut out to fit. Then wrap the full depth sides round it, detailing axle boxes to taste. The other big bit fits inside that, to position the bulkhead, curve the other end to the profile of the rounded front, then glue the tab in the right place. The thin bit is the upright with the speed controller on top (from bits box). The other control appears to be a pedal brake. If Steve posts the picture, the position of the handrail (bent wire) will be obvious.

As a first gnine effort it doesn't get much simpler, and out of card, the cost is about 30p per body.

While I'm away, does anyone want to try designing a modern one, the sort Linde would build if commissioned to do a 15" gauge job?

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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:10 am

I couldnt resist a quick play with Andy's design, printed one out on paper and very quickly stuck it together. I didnt quite get the sizing right, it came out a couple of millimetres too long. As it happens, that wasnt a bad thing. Fitting a Kato Tram chassis underneath and the axleboxes line up with the wheels, all that is needed is a couple of packing pieces at either end to hold the body level on the chassis, they could have been made for each other. Now I need to decide wether to build a proper one in card or styrene :)
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I've now got one too...

Postby ChrisMears » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:16 pm

Andy, thanks for sharing the paper model :D For the first time in seemingly forever, I was waiting here at the office for my computer to compile a database for export. While I waited I folded up a copy of the little loco for myself....

It IS a really appealing little machine, and I've printed off some extras of the picture to use as templates. I was planning to get some building done tonight and I think I'll have a go at starting one of these models of my own, based on what I've read in this thread. I assume the prototype was battery powered, and I intend to detail it accordingly.

Now the question is, do I have the first civil service cubical containing a GNine model :)

Thanks,
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Re: I've now got one too...

Postby Steve Bennett » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:00 pm

ChrisMears wrote:I assume the prototype was battery powered, and I intend to detail it accordingly.


It was actually electrically powered, but picked up current from a third rail. The outward appearance though is very similar to a battery operated machine and could be modelled as one, the controls would be exactly the same.

I'll email you the photo, so you have a better idea of what you are aiming for.
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I've been busy

Postby ChrisMears » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:58 am

Image

One the left is the paper model I folded up earlier at the office, and on the right is the styrene model as it sits right now on the dining room table...

The basic shape is there, and now it's on to detailing (I'm a little undecided about the journals...) I'm really enjoying the project and look forward to sharing more of an update tomorrow.

Off to bed, Chris

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Postby Steve Bennett » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:32 am

Looking good Chris. With regard to the journals, I think I know what you mean, it could well be better without them. I wonder if a couple of hinged covers for access might work better and would keep the sides fairly smooth, yet give a bit of interest :?: . Have you decided on how to power it yet, or is it just going to be a static model :?:
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Postby ChrisMears » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:31 pm

Hi Steve.

Hinged covers, I like that. I mocked up a couple of journals similar to the sprung ones on your O9 O&K kit. When I placed them on the model, they just kind of "stuck out". I really worried that they might get knocked off in reality as the loco moved around, didn't seem like smart engineering. Given the space under the side valances, your idea might really be the one to go with. I can work up some neat (albeit static) hinges as well.

Power?

I have just about one of every small N scale chassis, but like so many others, I really like the little Kato 4wheel pocket chassis (I think you used this one in your mockup?) I originally wanted to use a Bachmann plymouth chassis, but the extra axle is a bit of a problem, and the overall wheelbase is simply too short for this model :wink: As I was working on this one last night, I thought about knocking up a custom chassis, then fiddling with a set of flycranks and a jackshaft drive for some added visual effect, but I'm ignoring this as I may soon actually finish this model.

Anyway, I'm at work and I can feel the temptation to get something done here rising :lol:

Cheers!
Chris


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