Little Kiln

G scale on 9mm track? Are you mad? If so, this is the forum for you.

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Postby demaine22 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:18 pm

Thank you all for the comments, finalising an 'industry' has really helped the creative juices alot!

henrix72se wrote:Just my two cents.


Thanks Henrik, I felt the track looked a little less 'established' than it should too...and I just love grassy track so it was a must! I have some dirt hanging around somewhere I can use.

Steve Bennett wrote:Great concept with the charcoal burner Simon. Wish I had thought of that one, as it is an ideal subject for a small gauge like Gnine.


I was inspired by a visit to the Centre of Alternative Technology in Wales by their small holding display - had a vision of dusty mine tubs hauling charcoal and that was that 8) - for interest a link to their retort system http://content.cat.org.uk/index.php/woodland-low-carbon-land-use

Thank you for those links Simon, very useful, seeing all of the different designs means there are plenty of options to make and interesting scene in there.
Last edited by demaine22 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby demaine22 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:50 pm

Thought I'd update the thread with pics from a proper camera for once...the darn thing is hard to get used to and the macro really is bad, but hopefully these shot give a better idea of the appearance of things...
Image
Image

And for the crack of it some quick photo-editing...

Image
Last edited by demaine22 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:26 pm

Looking good Simon, the camera has given a better shots than the phone and it is easier to see the ground cover is not quite as dense as the previous shots looked.
I do like the one with the background pasted in, it looks very convincing and makes a nice avatar :wink:

I would forget the macro setting on the camera, for the most part they make things worse for close up shots. On most cameras they will reduce the amount of the image that stays in focus and are really only suitable for small objects like a single flower etc. Might be useful for a side on shot of a loco for example, where most of it will be the same distance from the camera, but for anything with much depth, normal settings work better.
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Postby ian holmes » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:10 pm

Super modelling. The little model is gaining quite an atmosphere.
Ditto on what Steve says about the macro setting on a camera. Mount your camera on a tripod. Switch it to manual settings, stop the aperture down as much as possible say f16 at least, then shoot with a shutter speed in seconds rather than hundredths of seconds. For example the shot on the top of my nano model railroading blog http://nanomodelrr.blogspot.com/ was shot at f22 aperture with a 30 second exposure time. The exposures were so long that a couple of times trucks went past on the road outside our house shaking the camera set up.

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Postby PeterH » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:50 am

Most model shots I take have relatively poor light and so exposure times tend to be 1/50 second or more and so camera shake is an issue. To get clear shots I need:

- Something to hold the camera - a tripod is good, but I didn't like the idea of screwing a metal tripod screw into the plastic fitting on my camera. Instead, I made a camera holder from 2 bits of ply at right angles with a hole in the vertical one to go round the lens base (this holds the camera enough, or you can use rubber bands). I put a small bit of wood under one edge of the flat bit of ply to adjust the angle of the shot.

- A way of taking the shot without touching the camera: IR remote, internal timer or a shutter cable.

In principal you can avoid all this by shooting outside in sunlight or on a sunny day just in the shade, but I find this is unexpectedly hard to do.

I use macro or not as needed with no problems.
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Postby demaine22 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:10 am

Thanks for the photo tips guys! I wanted to do some pics outside at the weekend but the constant threat of showers held me at bay!

I'll get some more work done now before I take any more pics 8)

Ian - Never heard of nano modelling! Bordering on the same amount of insanity as Steve's dragon fly!
Last edited by demaine22 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:46 am

It's not often I get invited to hijack someones thread, but Simon being pretty new to the forum made that mistake :lol:

I was quite taken by the idea of a small railway to transport charcoal and some of the links posted here to youtube got the creative juices flowing.
It seems that a lot of the charcoal kilns used for small scale production, utilize old oil drums for the kilns and as I have a few of them around the place, had to have a play.

Image

The charcoal kiln (on the left) is really nothing more than a standard oil drum with a chimney added and then placed on a brick base. A simple modification and doesnt take up much space either.
The one on the right is just a rubbish burner given a similar treatment and again the simple modfication makes for quite an attractive item that would fit on many layouts.
Guess I had also better mention the paper sacks to take away the finished charcoal to market. These are based on the dimensions of a 25kg potato sack which seemed ideal and not too small to be able to work with. After experimenting with several different types of paper, a plain old brown envelope seemed to give the best texture and ease of working with, being soft enough to get a bit of shape to them.
Hopefully, there are some useful ideas here and Simon doesnt regret inviting me to post too much :lol:
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Postby demaine22 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:28 pm

I'm glad you finally caved in Steve 8)

I think they serve greatly as inspiration, and I hope they do for others too!
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Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:06 pm

Thanks Simon, I cave in easily :lol:
I think the sacks have changed sizes since I last emailed you. Using the potato sack dimensions I think gives better proportions than my first attempts.
Also, as the sacks are an off the shelf product with no branding, they seemed ideal for a small scale producer to use :)
Guess I had better give some thought to putting some labels on them sometime :roll:
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Postby skylon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:38 pm

Now you've done it!
I'm rather taken by those sacks. I trust they'll be available by ExpoNG? :wink:
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Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:13 pm

skylon wrote:Now you've done it!
I'm rather taken by those sacks. I trust they'll be available by ExpoNG? :wink:


Guess I had better get my helper upto speed then :D
Image

I am hoping to have some made up for ExpoNG, a lot will depend on available time though.
As you can probably imagine, they are quite time consuming to make up, but I am getting quicker and more efficient.
Better stock up on some more envelopes I guess :wink:
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Postby demaine22 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:22 pm

Hi all,

Feverish activity tonight on the layout...well actually Eddie was doing circuits for a couple of hours whilst I chopped up some card to mock up the kiln.

Motivated by Steve's handy work with his kilns, I decided I wanted mine to be based on the one I saw in Wales, although this was surrounded by metal..mine will be breeze blocks or concrete, as other designs I have seen do this, I assume, to protect the surrounding area a little.

The pics I have here are purely to ask for help with a little problem I now have;

Here we have the log store and kiln placed on the board...looks a bit crowded to say the least and I didn't want to have anything on the outer part of the pizza...with the kiln next to the log store everything again looks crowded and cramped so I thought...

Image

Removing the large log store altogether means the kiln is more the star of the show, and personally I prefer this to having too much centre stage, maybe a small pile of logs nearby ready for the next batch?

Image


What do you chaps think?
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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:26 am

I would agree about having the kiln in the centre Simon, it does look better there.
Is there enough space to have the log store on the outside where you first had the kiln, I think that could work visually.
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Postby demaine22 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:05 am

Cheers Steve,

The log store is a few mm too wide, caught on Tiny as it travelled past. What I think I may do is make a smaller version, and keep the larger one for another project - gives me an excuse to get some staining practice in!
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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:43 am

Ah, familiar story, I'm sure there a lot of us with "Didn't quite fit" models around :lol:

I guess the other alternative is to add a bit more to the edge of the layout to extend it slightly :?:
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Postby demaine22 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:58 pm

Steve Bennett wrote: extend it slightly :?:


I guess that is an option. I'll mull it over, mock it up in card and see what it looks like...a more right-angled base to the layout will be easier to cover later with card, and a little more depth to the whole layout may improve it -mnd you with the size the board currently is I could have fitted your oval onto it :twisted:

Could always make a new base...it's only card...
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Postby Steve Bennett » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:36 am

demaine22 wrote:Could always make a new base...it's only card...


Oh dear, I should be more careful with my suggestions :lol:
On a more serious note, it would be easy to add a bit extra, just by using a bigger sheet of card on the bottom, then build up the extra piece of scenery on top of that. A lot simpler than starting a new base I would think :)
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:49 am

instead of building downwards , how about building upwards, creating a tunnel through small hill, with log store on top. Not uncommon for woodland to be on hillsides. With larger scales, I often find it is a good idea to make use of the Z dimension, which is why I often say that the bigger the scale the less space is required.
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Postby demaine22 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:50 am

8) No worries Steve,

Sat with the layout last night making some alterations, there will be no need for a larger base now (or a new one! :shock:), I hope to make a little improvement to the centre as well to make my life a bit easier with the centrepiece.

Hopefully share something soon.
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Postby demaine22 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:00 am

rue_d_etropal wrote:instead of building downwards , how about building upwards, creating a tunnel through small hill, with log store on top. Not uncommon for woodland to be on hillsides. With larger scales, I often find it is a good idea to make use of the Z dimension, which is why I often say that the bigger the scale the less space is required.


Thanks for the suggestion Simon, I want to keep the height of this layout down for storage reasons (As if by coincidence it fits in my 'bits box'. However with my next project I want to try adding a tunnel.
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Postby skylon » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:05 pm

Looking good. I must say, i quite like the look of having something outside the circuit. I like the look of the train passing between the two features.
Just my ha'pennys worth though!
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Postby PeterH » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:46 am

I'd vote for the log store in about the original position and the kiln inside the track as well and at about right angles to the store.

This would start to define a nice roughly rectangular space in the middle of the layout, with objects on 2 sides. Then maybe another object (lunch room, toilet or fence) outside the loop of track to make a third side for the space. The space's surface could be brick or gravel.
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Postby demaine22 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:28 am

Hi chaps,

Thaks for your views;

PeterH wrote:I'd vote for the log store in about the original position and the kiln inside the track as well and at about right angles to the store.

This would start to define a nice roughly rectangular space in the middle of the layout, with objects on 2 sides. Then maybe another object (lunch room, toilet or fence) outside the loop of track to make a third side for the space. The space's surface could be brick or gravel.


Peter I think I understand what you mean, I always imagined the curve to be the 'front' of the layout with the front of items facing there...roughly as if facing stage front.

This incredibly comprehensive, detailed (:wink:) plan view below shows my interpretation of what you describe (is this right?), using a different design of Kiln...based on the design shown here; http://www.bmwilson.co.uk/kiln.htm
The reason I would change design is I feel the one I currently have would possibly take up too much room and have a 'front' that would have to face a certain way..whereas this circular design, would be more sympathetic in terms of space - and in theory can be positioned however I want.


Image

This plan allows trains to pass 'between' the wall (the big grey line -darker grey is the stepped part) and Kiln, and now I have removed the built up area at the back for aesthetic reasons, I want to make some proper shrubs and plants for the corners, allowing the train to pass between them and the scene too.

This all saves adding to the board or building a new log store - and I think looks pretty good too in my opinion - but if anyone has further suggestions or ideas I would love to hear (well read) them too.
Last edited by demaine22 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby dmunseyjr » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:55 pm

This is a cool thread for a micro - but an alternative use of the word kiln comes to mind - allowing for a slightly different theme. I have attended art fairs where potters do their firing in an open fire barrel and the piece of pottery is then plunged into a trash can full of sawdust the create the incredible beauty of the raku technique. Just another thought.
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Postby PeterH » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:47 am

Yes, that is what I meant, with perhaps the whole front of the layout as the 'yard' and in gravel/weeds and the back half 'woods' (I wouldn't necessarily remove the built up areas or have a fence at the back). Oops: on looking at your layout photos I realised there would not be space outside the track for the third object I suggested to make the 3rd side of the 'yard'.

The round kiln looks a bit space-shippy to me and it is not obvious what it does. I really like the photos of the log stacks and kiln you posted on your blog. - this kiln (and more especially Steve's model kilns) are obviously meant to burn something.

Perhaps before you finalise the layout you could decide what purposes you want the train to have, for example: bring in logs to be dried in the stack, take the logs from the stack to the kiln. Do you see the kiln having a road connection (to take away the charcoal and bring the workers) or is rail the only connection to real life, in which case it will need to transport charcoal, workers and supplies. Your answers might determine what structures the layout has and how it should be arranged. For example, at the moment the train goes close behind the log stack, so if it brings logs to the stack you don't see them being unloaded.
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