HOf Busch Feldbahn set

Minimum gauge modelling in other scales.

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HOf Busch Feldbahn set

Postby RoGNer » Fri May 16, 2014 8:54 pm

I rather fancy getting one of the Busch starter sets - track looks a bit odd but I am sure could be "hidden" a bit.

Anyone have any thoughts on them? (daft question on here I know)

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Postby RoGNer » Sat May 24, 2014 10:03 pm

Well I got one.

The peat waggon set - loco, 2 peat waggons, oval of track and battery controller. In the box, under the set, were 3 Busch catalogues too.. which was nice.

I also got 2 PW waggons. Thanks to Gaugemaster for free next day delivery!


HOf - that's HO running on Z gauge.

The loco runs very well, quite slow and the tiny couplings are good.

Now to plan something!
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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun May 25, 2014 1:29 am

HOf is something I didn't know about.
Let's see, if HO is 3.5mm/foot & Z gauge is 6.5mm, then that makes the gauge just under the 2 HO feet that 7mm would be.
My brain isn't up to any more math than that right now.
Would like to see the couplings.
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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Sun May 25, 2014 8:16 am

Willow Creek Traction wrote:HOf is something I didn't know about.
Let's see, if HO is 3.5mm/foot & Z gauge is 6.5mm, then that makes the gauge just under the 2 HO feet that 7mm would be.
My brain isn't up to any more math than that right now.
Would like to see the couplings.


11.14 inches in 7mm scale, very useful :D
Last edited by More_Cats_Than_Sense on Sun May 25, 2014 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fatmac » Sun May 25, 2014 9:00 am

At 6.5mm in scale of 3.5mm that equals 22 inch (56cm) gauge.
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Sun May 25, 2014 9:16 am

One thing that is slowing down sales of this in UK is the price, but in Germany sales are good. Also the lack of points etc at start did not help.
I was looking at resizing some of my 3D models down to HO. 9mm gauge is OK for the slightly bigger OO scale, but for HO 6.5mm gauge is nearer, and Marklin Z gauge is possibly a cheaper start point than the Busch system, certainly second hand, and it does not need Busch track for magnetic adhesion or lower voltage non variable controller.
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Postby KEG » Sun May 25, 2014 7:43 pm

One thing that is slowing down sales of this in UK is the price, but in Germany sales are good.


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Postby rue_d_etropal » Sun May 25, 2014 10:23 pm

I was talking a a trader at an exhibition here, and there happened to be a German chap there who said they were selling well in Germany.
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Postby KEG » Mon May 26, 2014 9:32 am

Well, how did that German chap know? Was he a dealer?
At the local modeltrain shops in G. they collect more dust than other offerings.

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Mon May 26, 2014 1:09 pm

Don't know, maybe it was something being said on online forums. We have commented here on the higher prices for items from Germany, suggesting those were the accepted prices.
Also as I said, it is not helped by lack of other track such as points initially. I think they also suffer from similar problem to T gauge, small size, lightweight, therefore poor traction, which is why you need the steel track base. A small HO Decauville 060 on Marklin BR80 chassis might have been better as it would use established track system.
There is some Japanese Z gauge stuff round now, so that might help.
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Postby Simon Andrews » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:16 am

I bought some second hand HOf items on ebay recently, they seem reasonably priced. Looking at items supplied new by a number of UK dealers, it appears they simply substitute pounds for euros (an item costing 10 euros on the continent will cost 10 pounds from a UK dealer).

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:30 am

One of the things that concerned me was the low voltage and no variable control. Given that it uses 6.5mm gauge, why wasn't it developed to be compatible with Z gauge.
If sales have been lower than hoped then that might be another reason.
There has been quite a provided to use Marklin Z gauge items to produce scale gauge combinations such as Nm, including some very nice looking French railcars on Shapeways.
I have thought about an HO version of my Decauville to fit Marklin 060 Z gauge chassis. But it would not run on the Busch system.
If Marklin had brought out some sharper radius points that might have been useful for potential HOf modellers. The Marklin points are bigger than N gauge ones.
The new Busch locos with outside cranks might help.

---------------------

Just been searching and I think if I was to buy one of these sets I might start with the latest 12006 trainset, as it has the new loco, with 3 tipper wagons. I think just by removing loco cab(it is a 2 part body I believe), it would make a very gnice O scale or 1/32 scale model. Also would just fit in an APA box along with other more operational larger gauges.
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:44 am

Has anyone tried the Rokuhan Z gauge track as they do a very tight radius curve(4.5cm radius), small radius points and are N/S not steel rail.
Just wondering if the small Marklin 060 locos would go round the tight curves, as Rokuhan only appear to make larger locos at the moment. Gaugemaster stock the track so easy to get hold of.
I am also a bit concerned about what Barry said on another thread concerning the metal bodies being essential for a heat sink.
Simon Dawson
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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:49 pm

rue_d_etropal wrote:I am also a bit concerned about what Barry said on another thread concerning the metal bodies being essential for a heat sink.


It's something I read years ago in the MR press when people started thinking about using Z gauge stuff as NG feeder lines on N gauge layouts. It was suggested that the NG body was made to fit over the existing Z gauge loco body. If you could fit a lead heatsink in contact with the motor, I would think that that would do the same job as the metal body.

As with a lot of these things, it would depend upon the duty cycle of the de-bodied loco.
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:57 pm

didn't Peco used to do some NG bodies to fit Z gauge chassis. Just checked website and I think they still do. Does't look like it fits over body
http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3312&P_ID=16886

I had problems with one of my Kato N gauge units , as it was over heating. It was cured by proper lubrication using that magic liquid Peco produce.
Care does have to be taken with smaller motors, in respect to controller etc. Maybe I should do some tests on loco without body.
The metal body provides weight, helping traction and pickup, so can see this being a problem, and a more likely reason for retaining metal body.
I would be worried about any plastic in contact with metal acting as a heat sink.
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Postby velotrain » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:13 am

rue_d_etropal wrote:Has anyone tried the Rokuhan Z gauge track as they do a very tight radius curve(4.5cm radius), small radius points and are N/S not steel rail.


I've tried the Rokuhan, but not with the Busch engines. The 45mm is too tight for them (see below), but the 70 mm should work. Rokuhan states that the 45mm was designed for Nn3, not Z - no word on HOf. Here is one US supplier who I've dealt with: http://www.zscalemonster.com/rokuhan/track/

I have two sets, and they run quite well as delivered. And the magnets really work:
http://tinyurl.com/qj28tg6

I think I've also heard that it can even run vertically - mounted on a wall.

If you don't like the 3V fixed voltage, here's an option - albeit expensive:
http://tinyurl.com/phj2cgf

A report from Germany has them running on a 2" + radius curve; you can find a photo on the web if you search. There's also a German video of a micro in a 125mm x 200mm box, with room to spare on each side of the loop - which might suggest an even tighter radius.
http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=wCzGvrjZKcQ

I don't like being tied to the Busch track (for multiple reasons), and am planning to try some Peco Z-scale flextrack - and Rokuhan turnouts. To get magnetism, I'll use Powerbase from DCC Concepts. They have perhaps the most poorly designed site I've ever seen, but thankfully I found it at Hattons.

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:40 pm

rue_d_etropal wrote:I think they also suffer from similar problem to T gauge, small size, lightweight, therefore poor traction, which is why you need the steel track base.
:idea: Well, just mold the bodies from depleted uranium, that would add weight to increase tractive effort; after all, it seems it may be used for trim weights in aircraft and keel weights in sailboats. :lol:
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:03 am

I am now wondering how long(short) the loco chassis is as it might be a possible fit for an HOf 1/87 scale 40hp Simplex.
Simon Dawson
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Postby Simon Andrews » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:16 am

I will measure the chassis tomorrow.

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Postby adamc » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:18 pm

Willow Creek Traction wrote:
rue_d_etropal wrote: :idea: Well, just mold the bodies from depleted uranium, that would add weight to increase tractive effort; after all, it seems it may be used for trim weights in aircraft and keel weights in sailboats. :lol:


Better to just use uranium instead of ballistic U as that's normally mixed with other metals etc..

http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main ... ts_id=1078 if you need 10g and upwards of weight

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Postby Simon Andrews » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:56 pm

Chassis dimensions are;

L = 27mm. W = 10mm approx. H from rail head = 15mm approx. WB 13.5mm Wheel dia = 5mm.

http://www.winco.uk.com/Busch%2012199%20235x183.gif

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:35 pm

Simon thanks for those dimensions. smaller than I thought, so would probably fit it a 40HP Simplex. I can re-size the model easily to get a side drawing. Pity the chassis is still a bit expensive hen compared to Kato N gauge chassis.
that's the trouble with designing a model for one scale, always a request for it in other scales. Luckily its a lot easier to do with 3D printing.
Still does not solve problem of incompatibility between the Busch and Marklin models. The only way is to have two different circuits.
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Postby Chris18 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:57 pm

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:28 pm

nice videa, the build it step by step is very useful. Possibly one of the best 'adverts' I have seen for this system. I think it would be easy to use it for bigger scales, certainly O scale, possibly 1/32 or 1/35.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
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Postby RoGNer » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:50 pm

While pottering around the G Nine pages, I kept on coming back to the
"Riding Car Modelling in G Nine" by Steve Bennett post... and been thinking of my little Busch HOf set sitting upstairs.... hmmmm I wonder...

G scale on Z gauge HO? ! - Ho Ho no doubt someone has done it before - I may have a dabble.

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