A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Caption competitions, competitions run by The Management (ahem) or just a challenge you'd like to set your fellow 'boxers, this is where to put them!

If anyone finds a challengney type thread elsewhere can you PM me the number and I'll carefully copy it over into this forum.

If anyone's wondering why I've done this ... wait and see! :-)

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A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:35 pm

15in gauge railways has two centenaries coming up, Ratty next year and the Heywood centenary the following year.
This would give us two challenge opportunities, a quick one for next year, and something bigger for 2016.

Any ideas?
I would prefer it to be some form of layout/diorama so could be exhibited.
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby martin » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:17 pm

just my penny's worth but i've always thought that Gn15 is at its best when it's minimum gauge in minimum space. It makes for a goal that is achievable no matter what past experience a modeller has (or does not have)

I'd definitely favour an operating layout as opposed to a diorama... again because it shows people just how accessible Gn15 is and how simple and satisfying it can be to get something up and running.

It would be nice to have a replacement for APA boxes. Something "standard" that everyone could work from... perhaps something along the liens of Ian's Bedbug mine which also makes for something easy to tuck away under the bed? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9958
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:44 pm

one of the problems with the APA box was that it wasn't quite big enough. Something a little bigger to enable a continuous run. Having said that I 3D printing some approx 3in radius track which fits in the box, but very limited as to what locos will run round it. I am still thinking of a new gn15layout using it.
Simon Dawson
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Nevadablue » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:10 pm

I read that the boxes weren't available now. What size were they? Seems that a 'standard' footprint would be sufficient and not limit the thing to one maker's 'box'. I settled on a size for my stuff, simply based on the first piece of plywood I found that was big enough. :D It turned out to be 16" x 25" which I may trim to 24" to make it a standard plywood size available in the US, to avoid waste. That would make 12 panels from one 4'x8' sheet of lumber.
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby martin » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:35 am

Nevadablue wrote:I read that the boxes weren't available now. What size were they? Seems that a 'standard' footprint would be sufficient and not limit the thing to one maker's 'box'.


A size limit would be one way. One advantage of using one makers "box" (though of course it doesn't have to be a box) was that it did mean that it was easy to make layouts modular.

That said a modular system may not be what we need here...
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby KEG » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:36 am

15in gauge railways has two centenaries coming up, Ratty next year and the Heywood centenary the following year.


What a sloppy invitation for a challenge. You do not really expect to draw interest, do you? I start to understand, why people wander to other forums and give up, calling their models Gn15.

Never heard of a 15 Inch line named "Ratty". Heard of the Heywood Society, which seems to be a rather exclusice circle. http://www.theheywoodsociety.co.uk/

Sir Heywood might be a legend for a few. But from a commercial view, his attempt in creating a portable light railway was a failure. A few weeks after his passing, the material was scrapped and sold for a few pounds.

I like Gn15 modelling, because for me it is a very eccentric attidude to model and play with little trains. Affordable fodder for my imagination.

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:25 am

That's enough negativity. It is negative comments that are driving people away . I seem to remember some similar comments when I mentioned the WW1 centenary a few years ago, yet that is creating interest in history and model railways.
The title might be sloppy, but I wanted to get us thinking now not when it was too late. This forum has been too quiet for too long. It needs something positive and challenging to get us doing something, otherwise why bother. Why have exhibitions, just stay at home and play trains there.
I have been actively involved in exhibitions(layouts not the organisation) and see something quite special, not controlled by government grants, usually self funded, and being creative. There are not enough new young people coming into the hobby. 3D printing is actually getting us some attention, as we not seen as embracing new technology, a technology people can see even if they don't understand it. Far better than computer games. It might be different in other countries, but that is the way here.

I wanted this thread to be positive, but I have been thinking about a letter I need to write in connection with volunteers(or reduction in them) and preserved railways, so some of that emotion has slipped in here.
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby KEG » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:47 am


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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby cjwalas » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:13 pm

I think a 2015 Challenge is a great idea to help drum up more interest in the site and the hobby. But I really don't think it should be too specific as that will limit participation, don't you think?
What if we did something like having the Gnatterbox sponsor a general 2015 competition with several categories such as; best continuous running layout, best diorama, best locomotive, best rolling stock or whatever. That way more people can enter categories they like or even multiple categories. I suspect there's enough interested parties to help put together some sort of prizes as well?
Just thinking out loud, but I agree the sooner we get it started the better. A full year of competition for those of us slowpokes.
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:42 am

I am not competitive, as they sometimes don't 'feel' quite right, but I do love a challenge. The annual challenge at Swanley has often had very strict boundaries such as size of a module and those measurements have some significance such as an anniversary.
Some might not feel they can complete such a challenge, but a challenge with too broad a specification can make the challenge feel diluted and it will put some off, possibly some of those who come up with crazy but very clever ideas. The last challenge in the Summer attracted me as it seemed almost impossible, in fact I had thought I could fit in far more as I had not taken account of the thicknesses of the walls to the Ikea cube, so I had to do some ingenious modifications.
As both 1915 and 1916 have connections to 15in gauge, which is the starting point for Gn15 and this forum, I feel having a challenge for a working(?) layout using these dimensions makes sense, and is a challenge, especially if you want it to be more than a simple pizza one, not that those would not be welcome. The more the merrier, and a better chance of getting some publicity. There could be other categories to tempt those who would prefer to build a loco, wagon or coach.
Does anyone know if they have any centenary events lined up for Ravenglass?
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Chris18 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:50 am

This challenge is only for UK, I guess...
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Simon » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:55 pm

And my 2p worth....whatever the challenge is it ought to be some thing that is fairly easily achievable in a fairly short time. The last thing that we want is another generation of never-to-be-finished layouts...that might only serve to put people off.

Likewise it ought to be something that anyone, no matter what their skill or experience, can have a good crack at.

The result has to be something worth having too - not something that has limited interested that will just be shoved in the back of a cupboard never to be seen again.

I would have said that building a set of simple modules that could be brought together at shows might be the solution. This though has two issues: those people who live in areas/countries where there are no other GN15ers nearby won't be able to participate very easily, and the other issue is that this has already been done with the APA boxes, prompting the question: were the APA boxes considered a success in getting more people doing GN15?

As an aside, in terms of Heywood anniversaries and WW1 anniversaries, I've been considering a project that breaks history and assumes that Heywood was successful in persuading the WD that 15 inch was what they wanted, they thus commissioned his ever expanding works to build more of the WW1 rolling stock and infrastructure.......what would an armoured WW1 train from the vast Haywood workshops have looked like? (no doubt at this point someone will link to the RH&D one).

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby tebee » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:23 pm

This train ?

Image

And I don't see why a challenge needs to be limited to people in the UK - we could accept entries as long as people posted photos of the entries on here. we don't have see it in real life.

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:05 pm

there is a kit for that armoured train. It was in one of the rail magazines recently, so I checked it out and it is produced by one of the military modelling companies
http://www.sgtsmess.co.uk/rw2-romney-hythe-and-dymchurch-railway-home-guard-armoured-train-one-engine-and-two-carriages-narrow-gauge-and-crew.html
challenge would be to motorize it.
I am far more likely to finish a new mini layout than any train or loco. I also think that a few mini layouts are going to get us more publicity than more locos/trains etc. A 15in by 15in board is far more tempting.

I was checking out another well known forum, some names I know, and there was quite a bit over the years about APA box layouts and far more than have been attempted in Gn15 or other miniature scale/gauges.
I did not suggest a challenge just for its own sake but as a publicity/marketing event for this forum. We need to get into magazines and exhibitions. I saw the reaction we had with the Gn15 APA box modules.
Simon Dawson
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby martin » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am

I wonder if it's time to say K.I.S.S. ?

rue_d_etropal wrote: A 15in by 15in board is far more tempting.


I must admit it's smaller than i'd like!

But ... "15 x 15 for 15" sounds good!

Leaves it nice and open too!
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby tebee » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:45 am

I'll start building my 15ft square Gn15 layout then.....Image
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Nevadablue » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:32 am

If the object is shows and magazines, I'll watch you guys.

On that armored train, it says '20mm' scale. Is that about 3/4"? That would be a bit large, but it could work, right?
Ken

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Thorness » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:59 am

Nevadablue wrote:If the object is shows and magazines, I'll watch you guys.

On that armored train, it says '20mm' scale. Is that about 3/4"? That would be a bit large, but it could work, right?

Ken,
I think the 20mm scale may refer to the height of a man so really about 3.5 mm to a foot (HO).
Military modellers seem to use this sort of measurement sometimes, there are a lot of 54mm "scale" figures that are about 2 inches tall.

I may be wrong about this but I' m sure someone will know!

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:22 am

20mm scale is the military equivalent of 4mm/ft, they tend to refer to 1/72 scale and 20mm in same sentence. Similar to way 54mm and 1/32 scale are related. It is interesting how Airfix mixed up military modelling and model railways and on occasions put OO/HO on military modelling kit boxes. Some of those same kits are now branded as 1/76 not 1/72. Small difference in practice, far less than between 1/32 and 1/35th scale. And a lot less than what is referred to as G scale.
It is interesting in the model description of the armoured train that it refers to N gauge, when in 1/72 it would be a lot less, maybe using Z gauge.

I wasn't trying to put a damper on the challenge by mentioning what is mainly my own personal aim to promote Gn15 and this forum. I would suggest a twin approach so those who prefer small models can be included.
From the 'unfinished project' point of view, I will just say that I started a new (APA box based) project when I came back from France at start of September. In fact it was two separate boxes, albeit both standard gauge and one OO, one HO, and completed both by end of October, might have been earlier, and the HO one(Isle de Singe) has a 3 page article in January Continental Modeller. Biggest delay was waiting for some track items from Shapeways. By the way the OO one is called 'Monkey Island', and I will eventually get its article published. It was also a way to break away from the WW1 modelling I had been doing.
To complete any project, you have to be focused, not set the challenge too high, and be prepared to accept slight compromises. Having a fixed end date is important, which is what anyone building for exhibitions does.
I am lucky in some ways, not being in proper full time employment, but I am trying to develop my 3D printing business at the same time. The above modules were also part of that. I am also lucky now to get on well with some editors and some exhibition managers.
As I said before, I enjoy a challenge but hate competitions, I already have an inkling of an idea for a mini Gn15 layout fitting into a 15in by 15in square. Different totally to what Carl did with his original square foot module, but definitely inspired by it. I came across Carl's module way before this forum started, and owe him a lot in the way he inspired me over past few years, although the seeds had been sown years before.
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Simon » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:57 am

I quite like the 15 by 15 for 15 idea and could see myself getting stuck into one of them.

:twisted: Just as long as it doesn't spawn pizzas from everyone...a few pizzas would be nice, but if everyone did one then we risk Gn15 being seen as a trainset scale :twisted:

Would it have to be a 15 by 15, square baseboard or could it be the equivalent 15 by 15 area shaped in any way the builder wants?

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Mike Lee » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:41 pm

Why not 20x15 :?: :?: :?: :?:
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:08 pm

maybe add the challenge of one working point
Simon Dawson
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Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Simon » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:11 pm

Why not 20x15 :?: :?: :?: :?:


I like that - has both the year and the gauge in it...cool

maybe add the challenge of one working point


Sounds good.

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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby Chris18 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:19 pm

Very funny challenge in sight ! I'll watch it 'till the end. :D
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Re: A challenge for 2015 and 2016

Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:29 pm

I can see the logic in the 20 by 15, but then we will have to come up with a totally new one for 2016.
Also it all sort of started with Carl's square and another square links back to that

I found this from the early days, interesting view from the outside
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/115126.aspx

A 1.7 square foot(I assume it is that, not 1.7ft by 1.7ft) is pretty close to 15in by 15in.
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com


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