Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

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rue_d_etropal
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Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby rue_d_etropal » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:02 pm

always good to have comments on models, but from a 3D printer designer point of view, how many companies producing models for various narrow gauge scales have either stopped production completely or taken a break. It is too easy to think things will just continue trundling on, but if no one is prepared to put time and money into designing and manufacturing products for the hobby then there will be no hobby.
3D printing is not going to be as precise as injection moulding or resin casting, but unless someone has the money to develop the tooling for what is a very limited market, then it is a pretty good option.
Having said that the wagon plank ends do look a bit thin. I could imagine something that thin if it as representing tea box plywood. The type of wagons that would be built for a small minimum gauge railway would probably use any materials they could find cheap.
Also have to remember most of the wagons found on Gn15 layouts are fictional, even if they are designed along prototype lines.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby docnjoj » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:40 pm

I like my rolling stock to be heavily weathered, with a few new cars in between. I just got the turnouts for minimum radius from Simon and they are really well detailed and more than adequate for my skill level. Unfortunately the house and work have taken their toll on my time, even though I am semi-retired. Perhaps by the end of next week I will be able to put rails into the turnout street castings and demonstrate whether they do work with out electrics or mechanical throws. I did make one turnout by soldering a Peco one that is in my short youtube video of the radio control system and it works fine. Thanks Prof Klyzir for the technique!
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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby Nevadablue » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:27 am

Simon, I think I understand your statement about 'no hobby' but I must disagree. I buy very little in the way of pre-made stuff. I understand that I'm in the minority, but whether there are makers or not, I will have a hobby. Again, I'm sure that scratch builders are in the vast minority, but it isn't necessary to have pre-made stuff. Lots of people may decide to quit 'playing trains' if so-and-so maker goes belly up, but it won't affect me or the other scratch builders a bit really.

I'm not being argumentive, just realistic. Too may hobbies are driven by 'assemblers', IMO. There's a difference between 'paint by numbers' kits and painting a painting. I may not be an artist, I haven't been in the hobby for long either, but I do know... I'll play this game as long as I can. If someone like Tom is able to make toys I can play with and afford, great. If not... so what? It won't stop the fun here.

There WILL be a hobby, always has, always will. It may not look like what some people expect, but it will be FUN and that is really all that matters. 8)

I still think that 3D printing is still in it's infancy. IMO, it is still just a prototyping tool, unless you have unlimited money. And, from what I see in this hobby there are PLENTY of people with lots of money and not so much talent. I hope that isn't too harsh, but it is what I see.

Edited to add...

Juergen is the perfect example of someone with the skills to make something from nothing, to 'Have Fun', and still make enjoyable layouts and models. He is able to take something like Tom's Shapeways prints and make something out of them and to make a Hamster believable. To me, that IS this hobby. FUN...
Ken

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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby tebee » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:35 am

The idea of producing near ready to run stuff at Shapeways, is to try to make the hobby more accessible to people who have not got the skills or think they have not got the skills to make it themselves. Many people can do much more than the think they can if they try, but are just too scared to try.

Equally there are those who are all thumbs or the elderly who's eyesight is failing who can't make things - are we to exclude them form our scale?

The idea of the home printed versions is to bridge they gap between the two extremes - they are not as cheap as scratch building, but cheaper than the Shapeways versions although needing more work to finish.

Of course, when you buy someone's pre-made item you are buying their interpretation of the prototype, one of the advantages of scratch building is you can make exactly what you want.

Case in point here, Jurgan thinks my cars are too lightly built, but having seen some prototype Deacauville 40cm gauge cars, they too are very lightly built, much less substantial than the 60cm gauge ones we are more familiar with. For instance, the journals at the ends of the axles were only around an inch in diameter. I assume they were built for hand haulage, so you would not want a heavy car.

But of course most of us are modelling loco hauled cars of which very few examples existed in real life - we can to a large extent chose how these would have been built.

Tom
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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:27 am

Tom, your remark about not everyone having the ability to build a kit , is something I agree with. I have made a similar comment on another forum, and someone replied suggesting, I think, that everyone should be able to build a kit, but some take longer to acquire the skills. I had not replied but now feel more confident to push the case for 3D printed models.
It is not that the 3D printed models are fully r2r, but have got the model to a stage most can then finish off as they want, so there is still some individuality and pride in finishing the model. Still might not have the skill or ability to fully line out the model, which is why I prefer to have models in rundown condition. Main criteria for me is to have models that don't keep falling off the track.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby lesmond » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:45 am

Ken.. I agree that there will always be a way when there is a will, I've made things from basically nothing before now, mostly RC boats and have even been happy with the results the odd time. I'm more of a modifier than a scratch builder when it comes to railways, but can see that changing as I move more to larger scales. FUN is what its all about, though - no doubt about that.

Tom.. I'm grateful to you and others for producing things that I can make into other things. Nothing I'm intending to produce ever likely existed, but I'm not too worried. A night "playing trains" is a great stress reliever, as is the light bulb moment when the solution to a modelling problem becomes clear.

Simon.. I can eventually build most kits if I take my time and think things through properly. Not everyone can, however, and I'd take issue with the said otherwise. I fall down badly with painting, but know that I do, and keep things simple as a result. I agree 100% about models that don't keep falling off the track.
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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby KEG » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:42 am

Actually I started this thread for Tebee´s Shapeway Designs customer, to share their views and experiences with the products. Maybe to push sales or encourage newcomers to try Gn15 modelling.

General views and opinions about modelling, or the well known 3 D propaganda should be discussed elsewhere.
It does not make sense, to destroy every thread in here.

Have Fun

Juergen

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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby chris stockdale » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:55 pm

As Juergen has kindly suggested - this part of the thread from Trade tittle-tattle seemed to be more than a touch off topic and so has found itself over here in Blether.

I thank you…


cheers,

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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:41 pm

3D printing offers us the chance of a very exciting time in the hobby. It has been around for a few years, but has only recently become affordable for people like us. It is tempting to try and use it for everything, but it is better for some things than others. The WSF plastic gets a lot of negative comments from some people, but if used for the right things it is far better than more traditional materials. My track system would simply not work in any other plastic, and would cost a lot to develop using traditional moulding . Even then the range would be limited.
I started out with my WW1models because I anted a particular model in 1/35th scale and it was the easiest quickest way to do it. I knew nothing about the WSF properties, but have found them better in ways I had not expected. Once you get the bug, it is very difficult to stop designing.
If you look back at how the hobby has changed over past 20 years, I think you might start to realise it is being driven more by those wanting more in their models, and ignoring the economic effect this is having. Now not only have prices gone up, to pay for all this new development, but there are serious supply issues.
There will always be a small group of modellers who are not only happy to but are also capable of scratchbuilding, or building complex kits, but there are also a number of people who can not. Some try and give up, some switch to r2r, others find ways around problem. 3D printing offers some of these a way to get further.
Now one thing I have done with some of my wagon designs was to reduce them to minimum. Because WSF is porous it sticks to wood and cardboard using cheap superglue, so planks on wagons can easily be formed from these material. In fact plastic will not stick that well to WSF , you start to see what the material can be used for, and you realise it is not just a replacement for plastic, metal or resin.
Someone I know once describes 3D printing as an aid to scatchbuilding. That it is, but much more. As it is receiving a lot of attention in the media, with schools now using 3D printing machines, it offers something for anyone with a computer at home to design something and only spend money they they want a real model. It could actually draw people into the hobby.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby KEG » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:32 am

..As it is receiving a lot of attention in the media, with schools now using 3D printing machines,...


Very often I have the impression, much of what gets into the media does not come from personal experience of the authors, but from the press releases of the firms, which sell machines or services.

3 D prining might have its merits. But I definitely would not invest money into a machine for home use, which takes many hours to print a simple Gn 15 wagon.

Shapesways and others offer some fine products and services. But the larger the parts are, the more money you have to spend. And very often, you have the issue with a rough surface or even stripes. Up to now, I prefer good resin or whitemetal castings wherever possible.

It seems, the modellers in smaller scales love the possibillities with 3 D printing. In Gn15 you do not see very much beeing built and bought.

Have fun

Juergen

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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby Nevadablue » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:20 am

hmmmm... I have a copy of this thread with lots more posts... wonder where the others went? 8)
Ken

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Re: Tebee´s Shapeways Designs

Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:12 am

thread as a bit off track I think so there is another thread on Blether.

On the subject of 3D printing, it is offering something rather than nothing. There are other computer based technologies which are growing in the hobby. I am not including DCC as that is to do with operation not design and manufacture. Look through many railway magazines now and there are growing numbers of companies offering lazer cut kits, paper kits to download, and now 3D printed models.
There are also new ways to raise the money for new projects such as crowd funding, so if there are enough people wanting say resin or injection moulded kits then they can club together to make it happen.
Another big advantage of 3D printing is that designs can be changed relatively easily if someone suggests an improvement , as is happening on this forum. Tom has his way of designing models, I have mine, both have advantages and disadvantages, but once a design is up and running, it does not need any more time or effort until you want to do so. Printing on your own machine, as Tom is trying out, brings in a whole raft of challenges. Like much software and machines it is better to find what each is best suited to rather than trying to use it to do everything.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com


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