3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

A section for our lovely Gn15 manufacturers to plug their latest releases and for the rest of us to post our wish lists. Don't be shy.

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:18 pm

I think you have got in in a nutshell there , Tom, which is why I was getting frustrated with what was being said.
I have nothing against rusted metal effect, and with some work(which is available because you are not having to assemble numerous parts) you can smooth down the grains.
Interestingly I have noticed more minimum gauge layouts at exhibitions and mainstream magazines do cover the subject. Number of active members on this forum is down, for a variety of reasons I won't go into.
For what laser cut wood can do, have a look at these 4mm scale building kits.
http://www.lcut.co.uk
Yes there is a lot of development work, but I assumed that once you had it designed it on computer, it could be cut as and when required, as is done with 3D printing.

Interesting to compare the costs of 3D printing and laser cut wood. The wood kits above look incredibly good value, which suggests the material is not expensive and the process is also cheap, but 3D printing still has quite high production costs, and apart from time, relatively low development costs.
Traditional resin and metal casting have the additional expense of materials used to make moulds etc, and are not necessarily produced to demand, but in advance.Injection moulded plastic is in a totally different league for development costs which is why it is only sustainable for high demand items.
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Postby tebee » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:52 pm

The rough surface is mostly because I've made the models available in the cheapest material. There are better ones, but they cost more.

However, it's now only 50% more expensive rather than the 100% before , so I will make more of then available in it.

I'm looking at maybe buying my own machine ( or several) which would enable me to produce smooth finish items at a reasonable cost. However I either can't produce as many or I need to hire someone to operate the machines.

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:55 pm

I wonder how long it will be before the FUD prices are changed.

I have noticed some items(multi part) are cheaper in FUD than the white strong and flexible onanother designer's page. He has an advert in BRM, which is why I looked, and I think it might be someone I was talking to at Apedale event last month. In which case he has used other companies so can compare products better.
As for getting your own 3D printer, I would not recommend it. remember what you said about photo printing.
Its sad but it looks like 3d printing is not the way forward for all models. As I model in so many scales, I look around at prices for each, and there is a lot of variance, and its not based purely on size. Specialist models/scales always command a higher price, as long as there is enough interest. 1/32 and 1/35 narrow gauge seem to fit this well, so 3d printing is still reasonably priced. Some of the wagons are borderline, but if people want them they are there.
OO9 seems reasonable but not for everything. I have not bothered with wagons except the Pechot because the kits available are cheaper.
O scale is iffy, but because some of the kits that used to be available are not easy to get hold of, it is just about OK.
In the other small scales I have tried, there isn't any alternative, so OK. The big one, the SM32 Simplex is again within the price range you might expect to pay for garden railway locos.

I still need to modify a couple of my designs, as they have small parts included.
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Postby KEG » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:32 pm

This thread is getting absolutely confusing. It started with 3-D lokomotives for Gn15 from the printer, now it is hopping through all different scales.

I read, the Gn15 3-D-Designs do not sell very well, in spite of the fact, they were originally offered to make profit with them. Maybe some of the almost 1000 registered readers of this forum know an answer.

I know, quite many of the lasergang Gn15 kits were sold (no steam locos)

We did buy 2 VB locos, 2 Taiwan Diesels, one huge Gn15 passenger cars, a few sets of bogies. Very fine models or parts. I also own an IRIS steam loco from Tom Yorkes workshop. We ordered and payed a few more locos and parts in June but did not get delivery. So that is more than the number of fingers on one hand.

Smallbrook studios Gn15 resin kit seem to be quite popular. At least I have seen a few around in Germany

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Postby Thorness » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:11 pm

Although there are nearly 1,000 registered users on here I suspect that a lot are not "active", I'm sure there will be many who have not accessed the site for some time and several who are observers or interested in the techniques used so they can be applied elsewhere. I know I have looked at other sites to "borrow" ideas.

Lets face it Gn15 is not exactly mainstream it will probably never be as popular as 009 for instance so perhaps it is not surprising that sales figure are small.

Another thing is that locos are not consumable so unless you must have every model there is a limit to how many are required. If anything needs to be replaced due to wear it will probably be the chassis not the body so no sale for a replacement!
In my own case I now have three locos for a layout about 32 inches (84cm) long and I expect that these locos will probably be enough even if I double the size of the layout.

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:58 am

It is a shame, but there has been a dramatic drop in activity here on the forum over past year. It was growing out of its original Gn15 routes, but I don't think it is just here, but most online forums I look at seem to be getting quieter.
This thread seems to be more alive, possibly because it is new and slightly controversial.
The limiting effect of a minority interest, is possibly one reason 3d printing makes better commercial sense. OO9 is far more popular, but still way behind OO and HO standard gauge. I did not to sell many of my loco and wagon models, and only re-scaled them on request. Even my time has a ceiling, and I am looking at track items for the long term.
On that last note, I am currently making a version of my track inserts and full panels with much bigger stone pattern. As they are based on what I know ill print, they should be available very soon.
Simon Dawson
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby 3dtech » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:54 am

As for test printing, that is not always possible, especially if you have a lot of models. When I started re-sizing some models, I only did a few and then only in basic material. Only a couple of small problems with rejects, mainly because FUD material was more accurate so gaps appeared. Shapeways always tell me if there is a problem, and I can then fix it.
material used in 3d printing
NinjaFlex makes to a great degree adaptable, solid prints, amplifying the abilities of huge numbers of today's best 3D printers. NinjaFlex is a specially formulated thermoplastic elastomeric (TPE), ideal for 3D printers with direct-drive extruders. While each printer may have unique settings, in most printers, a heated build plate is not required in order to successfully print with NinjaFlex.
Features

Consistent diameter and material properties provide reliable, high quality prints
Patent pending technology allows for smooth feeding
Low tack, low CoF exterior allows smooth feed through filament guides
High elasticity and excellent abrasion resistance
Excellent build platform adhesion and bonding between layers

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby AndyA » Thu May 12, 2016 12:56 pm

Yes, I haven't been 'active' for a while on the list. Strange how personal life can interrupt your work. Simon, your really narrow gauge track is good and I've now after six months figured out a way to make the Ria model I intended it for. I got distracted. In Strasbourg I met an AI PhD student I'd corresponded with, working in a bar. We got chatting properly and I spent the ferry-ride back trimming down the Ria block-sorting puzzle to work on my 'phone. I had four lengths of track left over... Usw, usw.

But back to the basic thread. I understand the technology, I understand the amount of effort that goes into design (my wife constantly complains about this) and I thus understand why a lot of this stuff is so expensive. I'd like one of Teebee's 'saddle tank open' models. It's exactly the way I envisaged 'Lady Margaret' for my rebuilt 'Cuddle'. I could afford it, but right at the moment I can't justify it, because (a) I haven't really got the Ria concept working - no criticism of Simon's workmanship, just that I'm not using the stuff the way he intended, and (b) I haven't started the new layout yet. Well, yes, there's also (c) - another box arriving might mean that the list is permanently short one member if my wife kills me.

However, everyone here involved in 3D does good work, and if I ever need advice, I know where to come. And when I restart the 'Cuddle' project, I'll buy a loco' shell. Promise.

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby rue_d_etropal » Thu May 12, 2016 10:54 pm

Andy, good to see you back here.
On the cost of my time, I doubt if I even get minimum wage for the time I spend on designs. The high cost of 3D printing is mainly due to the cost of manufacture, ie the amount Shapeways charge. I am hoping that people will buy enough and all those pennies will then add up.
I am currently working on a range of low relief buildings in smaller scales. It would be far too expensive in bigger scales, although my door opening mechanism is ideal for bigger scales. I may do a level crossing for bigger scales, as it will only be the gates that get bigger and a couple of minor changes on the base(again the gate post needs to be bigger).
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby docnjoj » Fri May 13, 2016 12:34 pm

Hey Andy! Miss your creativity.

Simon, I would think that buildings would lend themselves quite well to laser cutting wood or card rather than 3D print. Just sayin'
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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby tebee » Fri May 13, 2016 4:38 pm

And now I have my own laser cutter ( though not currently the computer driver I need to run it :( :( ) so I can start experimenting with that as a medium too.

I'm intending expand the range of home printed stuff too - I hope to start doing some locos too - for about one third of the cost of the Shapeways ones, though they will be back to being kits.

I'm still a little slow though - some lingering health problems are causing me to struggle a little, but nothing too serious this time, mostly it's my blood sugar dropping too low any time I try to do any work. This is however, much less damaging than it being too high like it was before.

3-d printed loco sales are still bumbling along - think I have sold about 20 now, ok but not time to order the new yacht just yet. But I never expected them to make my fortune.......


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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby Thorness » Fri May 13, 2016 7:51 pm

tebee wrote:
3-d printed loco sales are still bumbling along - think I have sold about 20 now, ok but not time to order the new yacht just yet. But I never expected them to make my fortune.......


Tom


Tom, is that 20 just Gn15 locos?

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby tebee » Fri May 13, 2016 9:11 pm

Yes, just the Gn15 ones

For comparison I've sold over 100 09 locos and sell 10-20 a month 009 ones between ebay and Shapeways so it's still a minority interest, but I never expected it to be anything else. Having said that it's probably more than the number of On16.5 locos I've sold.

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby rue_d_etropal » Sat May 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Although it is nice when a model sells, at least you are not having to manufacture them and then stock them, although I know you do do some that way Tom. Having a worldwide market, potentially is also a good feeling, even if some models do seem to go by odd routes!

I would like to have an easier way to sell them at exhibitions, as cost is too high for me to stock up. I do get a mixture of interest,quite a bit in the smallest (1/220), probably for wargaming. The HO ones are a good alternative to the slightly larger OO9 one. Like Tom, I am trying to do models in various scales. That is about 14 for me, and I have been asked, and did provide it, one in 1/27 scale/ That is one big advantage, assuming the model can be resized. To be fair, I enjoy the challenge, and hopefully one day, I might be able to retire properly.
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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby KEG » Wed May 18, 2016 9:54 am

I would like to have an easier way to sell them at exhibitions, as cost is too high for me to stock up.


The least I´d expect from a dealer, is to have some built up samples from their designs at the trade stand to transport the idea of 3 D printing. For many visitors this technique is completly unknown.

Plus an informative homepage with a gallery of customers models. This can be run as a slide show on a laptop at the stand.

I am sure, if a customer knows what he gets, he or she is willung to wait a few days for delivery.

Until 8 or 9 years ago I was working for the Laser Gang and the Laser Gang Shop as a Beta Tester for the designs. Ever model I ever built in those time was shown at exibition and made it into the pages of the (German) modelrailroad press, bringing me ( a little) money plus free subscriptions for the magazines. Of course, free admission for model railroading events as well.

Have Fun

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:36 am

The way 3D printing using a service like what Shapeways provide, is very different to traditional old style manufacture.
My business model(sorry about pun) is based on low mark-up on items, as base price is a bit high to have everything printed then sold like a traditional retailer/manufacturer. As Tom has tried, it is possible to produce an alternative(but not to same detail) version on a home printer, but that can take a lot of work. I prefer designing than manufacturing.
I talk to many people at exhibitions, including traders. I have been told that if you put something on a stall, then you end up having to put everything on your stall. That is clearly not possible for me, so I have tried to show a selection. Hopefully some will then go home and order online. I think too many are still doubtful about ordering online for something they don't really understand, so I am hoping that I will be able to have online access at exhibitions so I can take orders at exhibitions. It was not something I had thought about, until I realised it was possible to send to a different address to the billing address. It is still a big mountain to climb.
Another important part of my business model, is that I am planning to be around for a while. Illness, holidays, finance, will not stop me carrying on. It is relatively low maintenance. Until I decide to take a back seat, I can also respond to ideas from other modellers, and take on bespoke work.

When it comes to other people showing off my products, I would hope that some would buy , use them and tell others.

I mentioned it on another thread, but on the Facebook page someone is planning a range of Gn15 locos etc. No proper details apart from a computer image of a Heywood type loco, and I an concerned that this might be duplicating what Tom has already done. No info to say if home printed or online service. It is great having other ways to Gnatter, but worried each group is working only in its own direction. As a small specialised group, we need to work together.
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby KEG » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:03 am

I mentioned it on another thread, but on the Facebook page someone is planning a range of Gn15 locos etc.


You do not really expect someone to know what you are talking about. A link is the least I ´d expect.

It is not really fair to try to put that other maker down, before he had a chance, to show what he is doing. Contact him, ask for details and invite him, to show his products in this forum. I don´t mind a healthy and fair competion.

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Juergen

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:16 pm

Juergen,
I have added messages to the Facebook page mentioning this forum, It was set up by well known members here.
It should be noted that Tom did do a lot of asking whether we wanted anything done before he started anything. The market is not very big, and I am just letting people on both this and the Facebook page what is going on.

Here is link to FB page, just to keep everyone happy.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/114811365587118/?ref=bookmarks
Simon Dawson
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby KEG » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:53 am

Thank you for the link to Facebook. I had to sign in, to read the message.

The linear format makes it uncomfortable and time consuming to read all contributions.
Most of the material has been shown elsewhere already. So why annother forum?
For me it seems a waste of time.



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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:42 am

I am not a fan of FB, but find it useful for somethings. Short term quick to post messaging is a benefit. I am set up so I don't have to keep logging in, and check it each day. It is one of the main ways we talk to each other in family. I have several email accounts so knowing which are being used can make life difficult, but if i only had one then it would take even longer to check each day.
Multiple forums posting same messages does seem a waste of time, but not everyone interested is on same forum. Never certain if it better to post duplicate messages or just redirect people to original post. Some prefer one, some the other. Which ever way you do it, someone else would ask why you did not do it the other. As far as I am concerned, getting messages out there is most important thing, and if that means duplication then so be it.
Given some of the problems we had on this forum a couple of years ago, then maybe some won't participate here, but will use FB.
I am just concerned that some might not be aware of what else is going on, so try to pass on what I find. Anyone planning GN15 products should at least have a look here first. I could not find out any info about the new designs , is there a website, please pass on details as I did not spot it on FB. Will have another look though. I had not realised that to read FB you had to sign in. Not as public as it infers, another reason to use properly public, out in the open , online forums like this one.
Simon Dawson
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby tebee » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:24 pm

At least no one can accuse me of never producing anything................
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Re: 3-D printed Gn15 steam locos

Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:05 pm

I gather this chap has joined here, so lets see what he can offer. I remember when Tom asked us about our thoughts on what we wanted. I don't think we were actually that positive, but Tom still went ahead.
Simon Dawson
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http://www.rue-d-etropal.com


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