Simplicity Sidings

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

Moderator: GnATTERbox Moderators

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:18 pm

Glad to hear that :)

Good thought on sealing underneath of card - the piece I found is about 1.8mm so pretty near. Going to mount them on a sub-base as you suggested so will seal all of the under neath when I have done that
Gordon F

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:09 pm

Hi Steve ,you might have warned me about this slab technique - :lol: and I know if I had looked more closely at the photos I would have noticed the change

Followed the instructions, cut to size, plaster,PVA & dry and water wash then diluted black and it looked terrible :!:

BUT when they dry out they look a lot better, not as good as yours but better than I thought they were going to be. I think I understand what you mean about the PVA. that does seem a bit critical, don't think I put enough in first time around- but its fun experimenting and I may try seal the card with pva first then trying the plaster/PVA/water and see what happens.

Thanks for the write-up
Gordon F

User avatar
b1gy1n
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:45 pm
Location: calne wiltshire
Interests: gn15 traction

simplicity sidings

Postby b1gy1n » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:24 pm

Steve excellant series of showing how to build a Micro Layout,you too Gerry,as i havent had much time to do anything on my Traction layout,built on similar lines to Steves using the same buildings,the only thing i did differant was to score the bruck work with a ballend scriber/burnisher,and recessed the windows one been bricked in and the lintels broght forward,each part were mounted on to Artist's mountboard free at framing shops usually.

regards Marc
marc

User avatar
b1gy1n
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:45 pm
Location: calne wiltshire
Interests: gn15 traction

simplicity sidings

Postby b1gy1n » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:26 pm

Apologies Gordon F,just realise put your name down as Gerry,

my sincere apologies,Marc
marc

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Ballating

Postby Steve Bennett » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:10 pm

BALLASTING

Although very few industrial NG railways use a conventional ballast as we are used to thinking of it in relation to standard gauge or preserved lines, the track is usually packed down, to hold it in place, so thats what I will call it here. More usual is just dirt from the local area, which when tamped down, does a very good job. With that in mind, the effect I'm going for here, may appear a bit alien to some :) .

Before getting started, a little preparation to the base to make the job easier and protect the card already in place from the moisture that will be in abundance later. First a couple of strips of 1mm thick card were added at each end of the tracks, which will define the end of the ballast. These were fixed in place with an exterior grade glue to give a waterproof seal, these will be shown better a bit later. Next, the edges of the card which was laid to put the paving on was treated with the same glue, to again seal them from the water from the ballasting process. One final touch, a couple of bricks, which will be well buried in the ground and form a scenic feature later, were fixed in place. Here is the prepared board, just waiting for the glue to dry.

Image

Once dry a start can be made on putting the ballast down. After giving the material to use a lot of thought, I took the easy route and went for a Woodland Scenics material, that should be available pretty much anywhere. It may well come as a bit of a surprise though, considering the scale we are working in, that I chose one of their N scale products, if I remember rightly, Fine Light Gray, I hate to think how dark there others are.

Now I have to admit, I enjoy ballasting track (strange I know), with some good music and a drink to hand, on a small project like this, it is nice to take a bit of time, getting the finish just right. Even more appropriate on a tiny layout like this that will be viewed from very close up. The only tools I use, are a container to put the ballast in, a size 0 or 1 paintbrush to tamp it into place and a small plastic teaspoon to transfer the ballast to the layout and to aid in tamping it down. Here we see the ballasting underway.

Image

One of the main benefits of doing this slowly and tamping the ballast into place, is that there are less air gaps in it, which will aid the flow of glue through it when it is applied. Another benefit is that it helps to deaden noise, not that it will be an issue on a layout this size :) .

The next shot shows the same end of the layout when the ballast is all in place. It also shows the colour better as no flash was used. Now you can see the card that was added to this end which will be up against the end wall. The card contains the ballast and also the glue once that is applied. I'm not yet sure how this and the wires from the track will be hidden, still thinking about that one, but probably some plant growth.

Image

And at the fiddle yard end. Again you can see the strip of card, which at this end, has other functions. This piece has been coated with the same plaster mix used for the paving to make it look a bit like a strip of concrete at the gateway. Aswell as containing the ballast, it also keeps the route clear for the cassette fiddle track to be plugged in.

Image

Now to the glueing. I'm sure we all have our own preferences for this, mine is approximately 35% white glue, 65% water and a splash of windshield washer fluid as a wetting agent to breakdown the surface tension. I dont know if it is just me, but with the finer Woodland Scenics materials, no matter how fine a mist spray I use, it almost seems like the ballast repels water and invarialy moves when it is sprayed, so I use a different approach. The first step is to apply neat windshield washer fluid to the edge as shown below, I hope you can see the darker patch where it has been sucked straight into the ballast, without disturbing it.

Image

This is followed up straight away with the dilute glue mix. Again I hope you can see this in the photo, the glue get sucked into the ballast and as it does, this pushes the screenwash further into the ballast, wetting it further in from the edge, almost up to the bricks.

Image

Unfortunately, it doesnt take long for the screenwash to evaporate away, thus slowing down the process. Not so bad on a single track, as you can repeat from the opposite side. On a bigger area like this though, it is not a major problem. Where the ballast is soaking wet with glue, it is safe to add more glue with an eyedropper or similar without disturbing it, this way you gradually move further along the track until it is all soaked in the dilute glue. If you get a stubborn patch that wont absorb the glue, a single drop of screenwash to the edge of it will normally get the glue flowing into it instantly.

Here is the whole layout after the glue was applied. I was really surprised, this was just an hour after starting and all the milky appearance of the glue had gone, and the surface was almost dry.

Image

As it had dried so quickly, I couldnt resist putting the elements of the layout back in place to see how it was looking now the ballast was down. I think it is starting to get there :) .

Image

So thats this bit done. not sure whats next, possibly the gates, or I might start the groundwork outside the tracks. Have to give some thought to the best order of doing it.
Last edited by Steve Bennett on Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.com

dr5euss
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:54 pm

Postby dr5euss » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:45 pm

That's looking good now, Steve :)

I have to admit I wasn't sure about the paving slabs, but the ballast seems to tie it together more. Still not sold on the ones in the middle, if I'm absolutely honest, but I'll wait and see ;)

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:06 am

dr5euss wrote:Still not sold on the ones in the middle, if I'm absolutely honest, but I'll wait and see ;)


I know what you mean, it took me a while to decide wether to include it or not :roll: . It might make a little more sense with a figure and a couple of wagons in place.

Image
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
David James
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:56 am
Location: Sobieski Wi. USA
Interests: Model Railroading

Postby David James » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:25 am

Great stuff Steve!!

I really like the tiles.

I think the thing that George is having trouble with may be the way they look as though they are floating?

I am sure after you work in some ground material around the bases of them they will look fantastic!

Keep up the awesome work looking forward to you next additions!

Dave

User avatar
Bob Taylor
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:33 pm
Location: Black Country, UK - NOT Birmingham!
Interests: GN15!, Zak and Travis my Border Collies, Steam Rallies and Canals.

Postby Bob Taylor » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:41 am

This was the bit I was waiting for! I also enjoy ballasting which means we both need to get out more :wink:

On my first attempt on Lutley Engineering Ltd I used a very course and dark ballast which didn't look right. I would have thought that "N" scale light grey would also give odd results but maybe not! :shock: That works very well indeed. It's the way I'm going to go on Lutley Mk2.

First stupid question of the day. The "wooden" supports up against the brick walls, could you give more details on them please? What size, is it readily available and possibly an even more stupid qustion what glue is used?


Bob.
maybach52.taylor@googlemail.com.

Gn15: Remember SIZE does matter! and may all your gauges be little ones.

Gnine: Narrow your horizons!

User avatar
Prof Klyzlr
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:10 am
Location: ...Somewhere deep in the Aussie Bush
Interests: Aussie NG Logging Tramway fan

Postby Prof Klyzlr » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:28 am

Dear Bob,

My gut instinct is "30 seconds work with some balsa from the model airplane crowd",
(dang if it ain't cheaper than "scale stripwood" from the regular modelRR people, and it comes in near-enough-to dimensional scale sizes),

and put it together with regular ACC
(My modelling personally thrives on Green "Zap-a-Gap").

For the NG logging RR modeller, this is my "go to" material and glue combination,
(albeit for HOn30 thru On3 work, haven't tried it on Gn15 yet... :wink: )
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

User avatar
Bob Taylor
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:33 pm
Location: Black Country, UK - NOT Birmingham!
Interests: GN15!, Zak and Travis my Border Collies, Steam Rallies and Canals.

Postby Bob Taylor » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:17 am

Thank you again. Never used these materials so have no idea what I'm looking for :oops:


Bob.
maybach52.taylor@googlemail.com.



Gn15: Remember SIZE does matter! and may all your gauges be little ones.



Gnine: Narrow your horizons!

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:38 am

:) Looks good and very clear instructions, even for me - so I am off to try and improve on previous attempts at ballasting.

Although continuing my theme of following but trying to be slighty different( or difficult) I will be trying to use the same material for both ballast and ground work and doing both at same time -make sense :?:
Gordon F

User avatar
Gerry Bullock
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 3220
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:07 pm
Location: S.E.Essex
Interests: Gn15 and O Gauge at Club.

Postby Gerry Bullock » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:39 am

Looking great Steve looking forward to seeing it displaying your wares at ExpoNG - Maybe :!: :wink:
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
http://gn15gnutt.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Gerry Bullock
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 3220
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:07 pm
Location: S.E.Essex
Interests: Gn15 and O Gauge at Club.

Re: simplicity sidings

Postby Gerry Bullock » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:42 am

b1gy1n wrote:Apologies Gordon F,just realise put your name down as Gerry,

my sincere apologies,Marc


Well Gerry is building one BUT with a sheet of 0.5x1.0m poystyrene.
However as you're buiding the Pizza content of the track Marc there won't be too much to show for awhile so I'll wait to start a Gnew thread.
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.

http://gn15gnutt.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:22 am

Bob Taylor wrote:First stupid question of the day. The "wooden" supports up against the brick walls, could you give more details on them please? What size, is it readily available and possibly an even more stupid qustion what glue is used?


Yes, it is Balsawood, left over from a previous topic :roll: which you can find here
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?p=13539#13539

The size of the posts is 5mm x 5mm x 50mm long, cut from a 5mm thick sheet of Balsa and I used a standard PVA glue to put them together. If you just want a few fence posts though, it would make sense to buy a strip of balsa the right size, in theory more expensive, but unless you think you might use a full sheet, more economical. They will form part of a barbed wire fence which will go along the front, though I may well try a post and rail fence to see which I prefer.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:52 am

gfadvance wrote:Although continuing my theme of following but trying to be slighty different( or difficult) I will be trying to use the same material for both ballast and ground work and doing both at same time -make sense :?:


Not sure what to say Gordon, I see your logic and it should work ok. I played on the side of caution, as the rest of the surface on mine will have a base from the same ballast. My concern was having too much of the base wet at the same time, I didnt want to risk it warping (and it didnt) as the glue in the ballast contracted as it dried. Wether doing the whole surface would cause a problem, I dont know.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:16 am

Can understand your concerns, I have presealed all the surfaces where groundwork is going to go and as I am trying to show some "puddles" I have also covered a lot of the surface with plasticene (different what?) to allow me to model the hollows I need.

If it all goes wrong could have the the first banana shaped layout :(
Gordon F

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:59 am

gfadvance wrote:Can understand your concerns, I have presealed all the surfaces where groundwork is going to go and as I am trying to show some "puddles" I have also covered a lot of the surface with plasticene (different what?) to allow me to model the hollows I need.(


Ah, I like the plasticene idea, if that is covering a reasonable area, there shouldnt be any risk at all. Will have to remember that one :wink: .
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:12 pm

Whilst waiting for the initial ground work to dry, I turned back to the roof that I had decided to redo. Through a number of steps and more than one lucky mistake :o this is the outcome of me trying to model an aged asbestos roof

Image

Image

Now I had better get back to groundwork - and those slabs which I have had to redo as well :(
Gordon F

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:31 pm

Fantastic paintwork on the roof, it really does look like old asbestos, with the moss and litchen that often takes a hold. Not sure how you got it so realistic, but it is hard to tell from the real thing. Superb.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Willow Creek Traction
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Boonville, Missouri, USA
Interests: HO, On30, G/Hn15, regular G, kites, model rockets, the occasional model boat, retro sci-fi miniatures game.

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:37 pm

gfadvance wrote:... and more than one lucky mistake ...
Where would we be without those! 8)

That style of asbestos roofing might be something we don't have or didn't use in this area - most of what I've seen in asbestos is siding like shakes or shingles.
That ties in to nice thing about this group - people from all over the planet are in here and show little things about where htey are which otherwise one wouldn't know of. :D
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:54 pm

Thanks for the compliments Steve, but in reality most of the effect came from stuff you posted( using poster paint to represent rust/wood)

In case its of use to anyone else will post a "how to" on my concrete thread sometime over next couple of days - its really simple and very quick :wink:

(just realised that I forgot to add the roof fixings - do you ever finish these "small" layouts :lol: )
Gordon F

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:05 pm

gfadvance wrote:(just realised that I forgot to add the roof fixings - do you ever finish these "small" layouts :lol: )


Depends how far you want to go with them :lol: but you are right, you can keep adding more and more detail :) .
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Simple River Layout

Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:56 am

Some may haver noted that earlier in the thread, Richard Andrews made the comment, rhat he was going to join in the fun and have a play with one of these tiny layouts. Well, he just sent through his first photo's for me to add to the thread, I really wish I could post these full size, but maybe as he progresses, I will do just that, as usual, his detailing is superb. Here we go, enjoy the pics.

Image

Image

Image

Oh, why not :) , here is one closer view cropped from the bigger images :wink:

Image

I hope there are more to come :)
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

richard andrews
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:02 pm
Location: south shields
Interests: Railway,

Postby richard andrews » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:24 pm

Thanks Steve for posting pic's, as this is a show how to do, and keep it simple theme, the river bank is covered in bleached carpet underlay,glued down with pva, then sprayed with Rover Applejack car paint and a bit of woodland scenics T45 fine turf.
the river bed is painted and then 3 coats of pva glueput on, leave to dry between coats. the reeds/bullrushes are bits of grass[some with seeds removed] the bullrushes are bits of the stalks cut off and dipped in pva left to dry then dipped in brown paint. hope this is of some help to you.
the back scene is made the same way as Steve's but then coated with Das . i am still waiting for it to dry :roll: :roll: :roll:
regards Richard


Return to “Modelling Matters”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests