Self-Acting Haulage Lines.

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Self-Acting Haulage Lines.

Postby brod13 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:12 am

I've had a good hard think about this one and to no avail.

My plan is:
To have a loco shunt 3-4 small ore wagons up to a haulage line, where the wagons will be uncoupled (Underneath i guess), then the haulage line kicks in (a Chain loop i'm thinking of), and somehow grabs the axle of the leading wagon and takes them up over the mountain where they will be unloaded (Thats another chapter in itself :D )

Anyways, what thoughts i'm after is, how can i connect the wagons up to the haulage line?
The only though i've had, is that a brass hook or something collects a wagons axle on its way through.

I'll try and post a photo of the prototype soon if i can.

Regards, Brodie :)
Last edited by brod13 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby brod13 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:15 am

Image

Thats the Mount Lyell 2ft Tramway in Tasmania.

Thats one of the early photo's, as the vegetation hasn't been cleared yet.

Regards, Brodie

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Re: Self-Acting Haulage Lines.

Postby Little Andi. » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:40 am

brod13 wrote:I've had a good hard about this one and to no avail.



Pardon!!!!!!



Snigger ! Guffaw!
KBO .......................... Andi.

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Postby brod13 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:44 am

:lol: Haha, Apologies :oops:

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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:54 pm

Dear Brodie,

OK, I'm just thinking out loud here, :idea:
but if your wallet can take it,
buying a "Log Haul" kit from SierraWest models,

http://www.sierrawestscalemodels.com/oscale/wp/wp.shtml

and adapting the "chain cleats" so that they grab the uphill axle of the car, <may> just be the ticket :idea: :!: :idea: :!:

Have the chain set up like a human escellator,
and "dropping thru a hole" at the top of the haulage,
returning downhill upside down under the landform,
to make a "continuous chain" system. :idea: :!: :idea:

For power, can I suggest the "Gearhead + Motor" combination masquerading as the MicroMark "SwitchTender" turnout motor.

http://www.micromark.com/SWITCH-TENDER- ... ,8394.html

It is working for me as the powerplant for a worm-drive traverser mech, and nicely "stalls" at each end of it's travel,
(or if anything "catches" in the haulage system that would otherwise kill the motor or damage the mech :D ),
without overloading/burning out...

might be worth a look...
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

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Postby Glen A » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:46 pm

Brodie,

What a great idea you have!

My suggestion is to have a rod dropping down from the underside of the wagon, as close to the font as possible, which you then engage somehow with the chain or string to pull it up.

My experience with towing wagons up an incline is the further forward you get the 'tow' point on the wagon the less problems you have. And the longer the wheel base (distance between the axles of the wagon) the less problem you have.

The biggest problem to sort out is the keeping the wagon attached as you change the grade at the bottom and top.

Good luck,
I'll be watching with interest. :wink:

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Postby Oztrainz » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:00 pm

Hi Brodie,
I'm trying to work this one out but in a different scale - O-16.5
http://www.illawarracoke.com.au/1912-65%20Corrimal%20Colliery%20Railway/pages/1951%20Sept%204%20The%20foot%20of%20the%20old%202ft%20gauge%20incline_jpg.htm

More photos here:
http://www.illawarracoke.com.au/1912-65%20Corrimal%20Colliery%20Railway/1912-65%20Corrimal%20Colliery%20Railway%20index.htm

One of the locos that operated at Corrimal is now available as a kit
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~ronhil/Inscale/6%20Ton%20Krauss.html It was formerly Tasmanian H2. THe H class 6-ton "baby" Krauss operated near Mount Lyell. It looks like one of them in your photo.

Corrimal used an endless rope system rigged so that the fulls going down the incline also drove the screens above the bins at the bottom of the incline, as well as giving the empties a free ride back to the top of the incline. At present I am still trying to get my head around how to pick up individual cars and drop them off the rope. I don't have O scale people who can clip'em on to the rope at one end and unclip'em at the other end.

I have put feelers out on a couple of groups and only found one operating model on the web that looks like it actually operates as an incline that feeds cars on and off the haulage rope. It was the Benter Railway in O9 Some photos can be seen here - http://www.ngrail.co.uk/index2.htm. So far I haven't been able to find out how it was done but there are a couple of clues in the text.

Most of the other operating inclines appear to use either barney cars (act as downside buffers on wheels permanently attached to each end of the haulage cable) or use inclined transfer cars on the grade (see Glen's Stampling Ground incline).

Now chasing plans for screens/bins, mine buildings etc Looks like I'm changing scales for a bit....But hey if its flanged wheels on rails :D :D
John Garaty
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Postby Glen A » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:17 pm

If you are talking about balanced working; one going down drags the other one up,

There is a guy in Timaru with a model of the Dennison incline (NZ). He uses two very short wheel base dummy wagons, (really just a block of lead, with 4 wheels and a coupler), which then couple to the normal wagons. It doesn't look great, but works VERY well. And is very popular to watch.

Because of the weight the rope line stays tight. Once the down wagon gets to the bottom, the Kadee runs over a magnet, and the wagon releases, and free wheels on to a siding, he then shunts another wagon up and couples it on.

The loading bins are at the top (on the grade) so he doesn’t have to worry about top transition to level (and all the problems that causes).

I'll see if I can find a photo later today.

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Postby Glen A » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:08 am

Here are some photos of Coal Town Layout built by Donald Goodman.
I took the photos in 1997, and these are photos of the photos, which is why the quailty isn't the best. sorry.

Here is the overall layout:
Image
And a close up of the incline, showing the height it was.
Image

The crossing loop in the middle. You can see the dummy wagons (made from a bogie with lead weights added). You can can alos see the hooks each side of the track to keep the string rope in line.
Image

And a closer shot of the loading bins at the top:
Image

Hope this gives you some ideas?

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Postby chris69 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:28 am

Hi Brodie,

here is your solution if you want to spend the $$$$:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAWA-6310-6311-ORI ... .m20.l1116

It has all the parts you need.I have seen it on layouts and it works just fine.

Greetings
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Postby brod13 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:50 am

All,

Thanks for your help and interest so far

Prof Klyzlr, the log haul is an interesting one, i found a few other photo's of the complete set up, it could work, still the only problem would have to be attaching and de-attaching the wagons.

Oztrainz, as there was an abundance of haulage lines on the west coast of Tassie, there was one which was one or two loaded down, with the one or two on the up as you described, Hercules Haulage which came out at Williamsford, on the NEDT. (I am hoping to build a Large Hopper Based on the one at the bottom of the Hercules Haulage)
As for Scale, i am yet to decide to base everything on a Gn15 Freelance style (Because of all the animation and free-rolling do what i want type attitude), or base it on 2ft West Coast of Tasmania, that would mean scratching most stock, but thats something maybe i can aim for later on in life.
I have one of those Krauss's on order, mine is due September, i'm about to find out whether mine can be similar to the photo i have in the latest narrow gauge down under, for those who have it, its the Big photo on the first page about the Baby Krauss's.

Glen A: Thanks for those photo's thats def. more food for thought.
Anyways i'll take it from here and see how i go.

Thanks again.

Regards, Brodie

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Postby Adrian » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:43 am

G'day Brodie
Just another thought....
If using a plastic chain then try one of those rare earth magnets fixed to the chain and if the axles of the wagons are steel the magnet should pull them up the hill.
I have not tried it but as I said it should work :shock:
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Postby Oztrainz » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:55 am

Hi Brodie, Adrian
I was thinking along those lines myself with the magnets attached to a driven chain running in a hidden channel immediately under the tracks and the haulage rope also driven but effectively being along for the ride above the tracks for appearance purposes only.

At the end of the run as the chain goes around its sprocket the distance between the magnet and the "magentised" wagon increases, the magnetic pull decreases and the wagon should coast to a stand clear of the rope run if I get the rope take-off in the right spot and the grades right. At the start of each run, a sharp downgrade will be used to feed in single wagons that will be held at a slight upgrade until the next magnet arrives on the chain under the track.

I have some spare Tamiya chain and sprockets to play with, but I have to find some suitable magnets (suggestions please?) and borrow some Corrimal skips (They were running on the platform road on Yallah at the Easter convention).

Then its time to fab up a foamcore test rig :D :D
If I have a magnet every say every 30 links or so....
We'll see what type of a grade I can successfully use for both up and down directions without having runaways. (Downhill travelling skips will be loaded)

For my next trick....
John Garaty
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:03 am

Dear John,

Looks like a trip to Jaycar is in order...

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploa ... agnets.pdf

Oh, and keep this stuff in mind too...

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

and if the metal/magnetic axle trick isn't enough to attract the coal-skips, try these

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD
(they weight pretty good,
so might add some "tracking" weight down low too :-) )
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Postby chris69 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:11 pm

Hi Professor,
I wish I had known about this supplier some time ago.It would have saved me a lot of head aches.Thank you much for the link.

Greetings
Chris :roll: :oops: :lol: 8)
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Postby Glen A » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:10 pm

Oztrainz wrote:I have some spare Tamiya chain and sprockets to play with, but I have to find some suitable magnets (suggestions please?)


I don't want to hi-jack this thread(again), but if you can find an old CD player (like the ones pulled out of computers when DVD readers came available), they have 2 very strong, little magnets; one each side of the glass eye reader.

When I glued one of these magnets under a wagon at one end (to use for reed switch trigger) it was strong enough to stop the axle turning :shock:
I don't know if it would be strong enough to pull the wagon when mounted under the track, as that is a fair distance between the magnet and the axle, and you will need a very powerfull magnet to do that. :!:

:idea: But if you had a metal tag hanging down under the wagon so it is closer to the ground, the magnet might be able to pull that.

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Postby Marty J » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:19 am

I have had great luck buying magnets from K and J Magnetics. On the web at http://www.kjmagnetics.com/ They have an amazing assortment of small and very strong Neodymiun magnets. They are resonably priced and a lot of fun. No commercial interest just a happy customer.
Marty J

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Postby chris krupa » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:30 am

The British firm Anchor Magnets are also very good and used to the model railway trade.

www.anchormagnetsonline.com

Do bear in mind though that many of these companies are wholesale suppliers and you will need to buy quite large quantities.

Chris

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Postby brod13 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:59 am


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Postby Oztrainz » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:36 am

Hi Brodie and all,
tonight marks a successful test for the magetic-haul incline test rig. :D :D :D :shock:
The first photo below shows the haulage end of the test rig. The magnet is 6 links to the right of the sprocket on the bottom chain pass.
Image
The chain and sprockets are from the Tamiya Ladder Chain kit #70142
The magnet on the chain is a 10mm dia by 3mm thick rare earth button magnet from Jaycar, and there is a smaller square ferrite magnet between the axles unde the bogie. The teeth on the Tamiya sprockets under the track have been }depointed" so that they are shallower than the depth of the ladder chain.

The next photo shows a closer view of the magnet rounding the sprocket, about to appear under the track.
Image

And a final photo of the bogie being dragged along the track by the magnet.
Image

Gnext move is to finish off and upload a quick video and then find out what type of a grade we can pull before we have a breakaway :shock: :wink:
John Garaty
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Postby brod13 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:02 pm

Wow, that is really impressive, i never would have thought of it like that.
Can you put more magnets on the chain- per wagon to increase capacity?

Regards, brodie

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Postby Oztrainz » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:12 pm

YES :D :D :D
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:26 pm

Gnice One JohnG!

Sometimes you gotta "just do it",
and in 3D it all makes sense... :D :lol:

Looking forward to seeing this at "full load" @ 1:2 grade...
Happy Modelling,

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Postby John New » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:37 pm

Would a plain steel chain plus big magnets* underneath the trucks also work? If yes wouldn't that make adding the drive sprockets for the chain etc easier and add weight to the wagons so they would roll onwards after going over the kip (hump) at the top? Too heavy though when going down is my main contrary thought.

*something like a Brio coupling magnet.
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Postby Oztrainz » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:46 pm

Hi all,
Just did a test at 45 degrees aka 1 in 1 was able to wind the bogie up and down the incline without a problem. Had to stay away from the ends otherwise Whooosh!!!!

Now to build a couple more bogies and add some more magnets.

The real trick here is going to be in how you set up the on and off areas
Still thinking about that......
Last edited by Oztrainz on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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