The GnATTERbox

[terrystrains]

Hi There,

I have in front of me, a Hornby 0-4-0 "Bill" that I am converting/hacking about to make another Gn15 loco. It looks a totally different beast than the "Smokey Joe" chassis, as the motor is fixed horizonally over the chassis which is heavy diecast/milled, so leaving much more room for a cab. The running ability has been enhanced and is much more controllable than the smokey joe type. In my opinion, the new "Bill" chassis is the one to go for as, not only is it superior than "Smokey Joe", it was cheaper too!!!

Regards


Terry

[cp409067]

I quite agree that the new "Bill"/"Ben" chassis is very good. It does indeed have weight, runs very slowly by merit of the gear train and at first sight is a great improvement on "Smokey Joe". Indeed having built many locomotives using "Smokey Joe" as the basis and about six months ago one on "Bill"/"Ben", I need no convincing of this basic truth.

However, there is more to using a cheap proprietary chassis successfully than the inherent running qualities. Over the years on the three layouts listed below I have obtained (much to the surprise of some) good running from many "Smokey Joe" chassis in the demanding conditions of public exhibitions. Six months ago I built a fireless locomotive for "Sutton Wharf" on a "Bill"/"Ben", and it too runs very well - IF NOT BETTER. But the real issue if using either of these types of chassis as the basis for a large scale (freelance) narrow gauge locomotive is only partly that of the running quality. Also of import is the ease with which a scratchbuilt body can be mounted/fixed to the chassis, and in this matter the "Smokey Joe" wins hands down.

I do not say that it is impossible to fix a body onto "Bill"/"Ben", but it does take some careful thought as I found with my fireless locomotive. In contrast fixing to "Smokey Joe" is very easy (especially if the loco has a complete footplate in the British or european style) using the hooked lugs on the top of the chassis.

When this point is taken into account, as is also the enhanced reputation of the new Chinese built version of "Smokey Joe" I think the choice between it an "Bill"/"Ben" is not so straightforward. My assessment would be -

"Bill"/"Ben" is good, but "Smokey Joe" (especially the Chinese version) ain't bad (given additional weight), and that the latter is the easiest to fix to a body.

As for the cost, I am interested to hear what you say. The old "Smokey Joe" chassis (no body) is I believe £7.50, whilst I recently purchased the Chinese version for £12.50. I have not seen the "Bill"/"Ben" chassis available on its own - I have paid £20 for the complete loco. I would be pleased to be advised as to where the "Bill"/"Ben" chassis is available at a (considerably - ie. less than £12.50) cheaper price.

There is also the matter of the couplings which is relevant to my work because I make use of the Hornby tension lock by modifying it for delayed action. It is ready fitted and an integral part of then "Smokey Joe" chassis, but clips on the body and/or chassis of "Bill"/"Ben".

What at this moment I do not know is how the two types compare in terms of running and hauling capacity on a gradient. I suspect that "Bill"/"Ben" will be the superior.
_________________
Christopher Payne UK

"Portpyn" 1:34
"St Pierre" 1:34e
"Sutton Wharf" 1:25
"Paradise Mining Co" 1:25
"Brink Valley Tramway" 1:43.5

[terrystrains]

Hi All,

Just how can a loco run "too good" and how does that statement help to inspire a new comer to Gn15?

We have all seen your locos and layouts and very good they are too but they are your interpretation of the scale/gauge and not everyone can aspire to that standard or wants too!! I bought the Bill/Ben cpmplete for £14.99 and can buy a smokey joe(or one of its derivatives) for £9.99 and I know which I prefer, but again. its only my humble opinion!!! Perhaps the new modeller to Gn15 should consider the Hornby 0-4-0 diesel loco also as I have done. Although it is still a "smokey joe" type motor, it is improved by a nice heavy chassis and is easy to convert to Gn15 (using the same body) at minimal cost. These also sell at around £9.99 to £14.99. You pay your money and take your choice, it just depends on how quick you want to be up and running in Gn15 and how good, or bad, you are at scratchbuilding a complete loco and of course rolling stock! Once you're hooked on the scale/gauge, then maybe. that is the time to consider your next move, which may well be to build your own stock or to super detail the scenic aspects etc. The beauty of Gn15 is that there are NO set rules yet regarding operating standards so you can make your own. Industrial, Estate or Pleasure line, Scratchbuilt loco, Kit built loco or Hornby conversions?, it really does'nt matter as long as it's FUN and not taken too seriously? The choice is yours and may you have as much fun deciding and building them as I have had over the last year.

Regards


Terry

[ian holmes]

I have followed this thread with some interest as I have a couple of Bills and a couple of toby the tram chassis ripe for conversion. I have to say I am very impressed by the running qualities.
I have a considerable number of chassis from American manufacturers as well and apart from the Bachmann porter chassis (which is truly excellent) is the best of the lot. I am currently building a model of Sir Arthur Heywoods Katie and can report no problems with fitting a body to the chassis.
The only minor problem is that the motor protrudes too far forward, so I loose the daylight under the boiler.
The footplate sits perfectly on the top of the chassis which is uncannily at the right height. Katie is longer than the chassis so I loose the ability to use the Hornby couplers. Which I might live to regret as I am still looking for a reliable auto coupling system.

Ian
_________________
Model railway psychic nutjob
Ian's Gn15 pages at http://www.iholmes.com
Try something different http://gnine.info

[cp409067]

Terry

The prices at which you can get "Bill"/"Ben" or the "Smokey Joe" type and its various derivatives sound most attractive. May I enquire if is this a retailer specific to a particular locality, do they sell by mail order, or is it part of a national chain?

I am frankly puzzled by the opening sentence of your post -

"Just how can a loco run "too good" and how does that statement help to inspire a new comer to Gn15?"

Where does this idea originate? If it comes from a posting on this forum I must have missed it.

Best wishes
_________________
Christopher Payne UK

"Portpyn" 1:34
"St Pierre" 1:34e
"Sutton Wharf" 1:25
"Paradise Mining Co" 1:25
"Brink Valley Tramway" 1:43.5

[terrystrains]

Hi Christopher,

I must apologise for my opening statement about the chassis being "Too Good". I rechecked after reading your last email and I misread the part of your text that follows......Six months ago I built a fireless locomotive for "Sutton Wharf" on a "Bill"/"Ben", and it too runs very well - IF NOT BETTER. But the real issue if using either of these types of chassis as the basis for a large scale (freelance) narrow gauge locomotive is only partly that of the running quality...... Because of the problem I have with my eyes, I read this as"it runs too well". About the costs. I have bought several diesel locos at £9.99 from Ebay "buy it now" and the steam locos from "Toymasters" at Cribbs Causeway" in Bristol for the same price. NO real choice however, just whatever they have in stock at the time. They seem to buy direct from Hornby but the locos are never in Hornby boxes, usually just in a plastic bag with the Toymaster logo. The "Bill" loco, I purchased new, last weekend from a trade stand at the Shepton Mallet show, I think it maybe "Modelmania" from Bristol. Hope this helps.

Terry

[Gerry Balding]

Hi,

I managed to pick one up for about £17 at a local exhibition. I am currently using it as a basis for a model of Katie. The chassis needs a bit of modification, but the advantage is that the motor can be hidden in the boiler / tank assembly leaving a nice, free footplate.

The new price compares favourably with many second hand Smokey Joes seen at local collectors' fairs.

Gerry Balding
_________________
Gerry Balding
Norwich
Norfolk
UK