The GnATTERbox

[AndyA]

I've actually managed today to assemble the trackwork for the Yucatan Inglenook I threatened on the (f)rocks thread. I was going to use a sector-plate because they're easier but over the weekend I realised that the track radii didn't work out. and still give room for the air-plants, which are one of the main points (but note that if anyone is really desperate a seven-inch sector plate plus one six-inch and two four inch tracks will indeed fit into a shoebox, enough to play the 2:2:3 three from five version of the Inglenook using Steve's flat wagons).

So on the trip back I re-jigged it on a couple of napkins: I suspect that this is the first Gn15 layout to be designed on a Pendolino. I'm pleased with the concept and I was hoping to present a Klaus-style picture of the finished thing tonight. But, domestic arrangements and the reluctance of the joint compound to set fully have defeated me.

However, anyone who really feels they don't have the skill to assemble a functional layout may be interested in the overall bodged traverser concept.

http://www.apqw69.dsl.pipex.com/gn15/yucatan/traverser.html

I had 'trains' running after less than two hours of effort and I'll probably be able to finish it enough tomorrow to get the air-plants in place and add more photos.

Interestingly, an 'oops' has solved one problem for later getting the cactus-leaf bundles into the defibrador. I've used a 34mm loading gauge on 37.5mm centres, (a) to allow a hidden staging track and (b) because it was what I'd calculated for the tunnel loco, allowing me to re-use some parts I've already made. Then I read that the leaves are 3ft-4ft long so they won't fit sideways on the flats. However, lengthways will allow me to make side-tippers 'vagos' that'll line up with the input conveyor. I love it when a plan comes togehter. Or I would, if I had a plan.

regards, and sleep well those whose day is mostly over...
Andy A
_________________
Gn15: Gnot so much a scale, more a state of mind
gnine: less is the gnew more
GnTonic - enjoy irresponsibly

[Steve Bennett]

Hmmm, I see you are working in the kitchen again Andy, I'm not taking the blame for this one

A really great idea for a little layout, such simplicity appeals to me and the time involved to make it, shouldnt be too great, you could say ideal for those of us with little time to spare. Once again you are distracting me . Really looking forward to the next instalment.
_________________
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.co.uk

[KK]

[michael]

Klaus what an astute observation, that is exactly how I came to be making these little layouts I had not seriously thought about making models like these before browsing this forum. It is way way to easy to be distracted .

And everyone is so creative, speaking of which How is your box file mine coming along I seem to recall you were hung up on the elevator?

regards Michael
_________________
Regards Michael
If you believe you can make something, you can make it.

http://users.xplornet.com/~macton/index.html

[AndyA]

Thanks, Steve, Klaus, for the kind words. I'm enjoying building the thing, but maybe there are a few points I'd better make here.

The layout as I have it now is a compromise between two concepts: that doesn't matter to me because (apart from the air-plants at least) this really is a proof of concept and despite the fact that I work in an industry where 'prototype' means 'the thing you're going to ship after you've tweaked it so it passes customer testing', I don't intend to get too attached to it.

...and I've found (most of) the typos in the page I posted last night, and will correct them. The pet shop in Gosport is out of the aquarum sand I need to cure a real bodge from last night, so if I make it home in time to do any work on the thing, I'm back to sifting my gravel stuff and then dry-brushing it. And then of course cleaning the rail surface. Again.

Here, in no particular order. are the reasons and compromises (devices and diversions) that I already realise are mistakes. At least, mistakes from my point of view and points to consider if anyone else wants to build one of these.

>the design ended up being a hybrid. I limited the width to the offcut I had available and just another twenty mil or so would have made all the difference. In the space I had, I should have stuck with either the hidden staging track plus two, or just the visible Inglenook.

>It is, in fact, possible to run what in the US is, I gather, an 'order card' system, with just the hidden track plus one, so long as you make the traverser long enough for a loco plus two wagons (in this case, 175mm). The small-layout-design people would say it's not 'switching', but it's just the same as the tippers on "Sutton Wharf", the fact that the rake is three, with only room for two on the tipper, adds to the fun but is believable because of the confined space. And as I learned years ago watching a timber treatment plant outside my then office window, if a real railway can do it with less, it does it with less. There are two sorts of less: less time (efficient operation if you have space to redesign the track) or less space (if that space is all you have).

>so, unless you're really pushed for space, widen the layout a bit, and if you are, consider whether simplifying the operation by removing one track (hidden or otherwse) would help.

>the other thing was that I'd designed the original sector-plate design for 'Boxleiter's Famous Stout and Porter Store', based on an Inglenook in front of a brewery building sorting the different beer boxes I meant to make. This was meant to try out the scribed cobbles for Begijnendijk. But Klaus distracted me and I bought the air-plants. It's been fun, but if I'd stuck with the original concept it would be finished by now (and I wouldn't be looking for aqaurium sand to fix a problem quite similar to Michael's). I find both soldering and burying track (even with the wonderfully simple jointing compound) a pain. I certainly wouldn't have buried my soldering if I weren't wedded to the henequin idea for the 500mm cube.

Once I've finished it and learned what I can from it, though, I may build 'Boxleiter's', to see how quickly it can be done if you know what you're doing. Quite what I'll do with this one, though, since it fits properly on the top of a bookcase I've had since I were a lad, whereas Begijnendijk is resting across the edges, is open to question. Use it to display the air-plants, perhaps. Cats in boots, anyone?

regards
Andy A
_________________
Gn15: Gnot so much a scale, more a state of mind
gnine: less is the gnew more
GnTonic - enjoy irresponsibly

[KK]

[KK]

[AndyA]

This morning and this evening constitute part two of the bodger story. I haven't finished yet but I need to let everything dry and Sue will be late so I'm off for a drink (it's quiz night at the pub, so I may be a while).

Two more pictures are at:

http://www.apqw69.dsl.pipex.com/gn15/yucatan/cover.html

I hope to get the rest of the cover in place tonight and dry-brush it, but that's the interim version. And the 'lectrics really do still work despite the brinkmanship.

(I've also amended the first URL I posted to make room for getting the site the way I want it, written but not posted some fictional background, corrected some typos and fixed a bug in the stylesheet. And I know what the building has to look like, so it's maybe a litlle more progress than it looks).

regards
Andy A
_________________
Gn15: Gnot so much a scale, more a state of mind
gnine: less is the gnew more
GnTonic - enjoy irresponsibly

[Steve Bennett]

Yet another entertaining read Andy, I really enjoy your writing style, it paints a very vivid picture.
_________________
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.co.uk

[michael]

Andy very entertaining indeed I am kooped up in Ft Mcmurray in a hotel room, and I dont watch Television. You had me laughing out loud.

regards Michael
_________________
Regards Michael
If you believe you can make something, you can make it.

http://users.xplornet.com/~macton/index.html

[AndyA]

I got as far as putting the perlite down last night, then quit.

the story is here:

http://www.apqw69.dsl.pipex.com/gn15/yucatan/cover.html

with this morning's episode here:

http://www.apqw69.dsl.pipex.com/gn15/yucatan/airplant.html

If you're enjoying the saga, then I'm pleased to be giving something back.

The photo quality is variable because I wasn't carting the lights around, so there's a mixture of flash and natural light - I haven't had time to correct the images because I've been planting tillandsia.

Steve, here you go - this is what they look like in bulk.



I can design the building over lunch. I'm not sure I can bear to paint it the shade of pink that's in the photos, though.

of to work now...

regards
Andy A
_________________
Gn15: Gnot so much a scale, more a state of mind
gnine: less is the gnew more
GnTonic - enjoy irresponsibly

[AndyA]

Having moved the still-un-named yucatan test-piece up to the bookcase, I realise that I've only got 165mm depth, but 570mm width. This is one factor that has decided me that the Stout and Porter Store will just have the visible inglenook layout, only longer.

The other factor is that with the yucatan layout where it is, I can't get at the staging track other than by leaning over the building anyway. Anything that's going to be on that shelf permanently needs to be operable from the front. And since that's where the last completed layout I had, some twenty years ago, was, I think it'd be kind of fun to have something there.

If I extend the traverser building to 200mm, leaving the traverser itself at 175mm, it'll be less obvious. That leaves 370mm for exposed track, all of which is dead straight so I can easily use the scribed cobbles I discussed with Michael.

If I make two tracks 240mm long, I can have a 120mm 'sticking-out-bit' at the other side of the layout for some variation. This allows three 'loading door' pieces, so I can either play at spotting loads by the doors using a card index system, or use strategically placed stacks of barrels to shorten it to a standard 2:2:3 Inglenook.

Best, I have all the scenery already desiged and I know it'll work. I'm away on a narrow-boat next week so I can do all the artwork then, ready to print out and assemble when I get back.

With only the building to go, the yucatan layout has taken just over five hours effort, including false starts. With pre-scribed cobbles Boxleiter should be much quicker.

regards
Andy A
_________________
Gn15: Gnot so much a scale, more a state of mind
gnine: less is the gnew more
GnTonic - enjoy irresponsibly

[KK]

[Steve Bennett]

I'm lost for words Andy and that doesnt happen very often not only entertaining to read, but truly inspiring aswell, so much so that I'm fighting the temptation to follow your lead. Only just managing to resist at the moment, but i have a window ledge that would be an ideal location for both the airplants and a layout like this. I fear I will not resist for much longer. All thoughts of putting the airplants on a small circular layout like Klaus made have gone on hold for the moment. Now I wonder if I can get all the materials together before the weekend
_________________
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.co.uk

[michael]

You ought to go for it Steve, I must say this is catching I am begining to think that my kick switch layout micht work well for this sort of model as it is small enough to go in the living room, and I was planning to have a small loading dock with some of Andy's crates piled up ready to be loaded. The plants really do apeal to me. I must say Andy the speed with which you have put this whole thing together is amazing and a lot of fun to follow.

I'm breaking down Andy....... I cant resist .....much ..longerr.........


great stuff Andy both the writing and the model.

regards Michael
_________________
Regards Michael
If you believe you can make something, you can make it.

http://users.xplornet.com/~macton/index.html

[ian holmes]

Andy;
Great Stuff!
Like everyone else who has passed comment I too am fighting off the urge to do the same...
There's some wonderful inspiration on all pages of all your sites.
Thanks

Ian
_________________
Model railway psychic nutjob
Ian's Gn15 pages at http://www.iholmes.com
Try something different http://gnine.info

[SandyR]

Andy, those airplants are fabulous! Especially en masse. I've just GOT to get some and get cracking!
SandyR

[John]

Hi Andy,

I can't get the first two installments of your inglenook/airplant story to come up, do you have another link? And Micheal, didn't anybody tell you to stay away from Ft.MacMurry during shutdown season?

Thx john

[michael]

Whats This about shutdown season in Ft McMurray John?

The drive back this late afternoon was interesting to say the least, There were 5 giant loads of welded steel structures that took up both lanes of traffic I had to drive on the shoulder to allow them to pass going the other way.

Had a couple of adrenaline rushes when the deer crossed in front, Glad the brakes worked.

Regards Michael.
_________________
Regards Michael
If you believe you can make something, you can make it.

http://users.xplornet.com/~macton/index.html

[AndyA]

John asked...

[Gerry Bullock]

Hi Andy - the term saga certainly isn't used in a derogatory sense; just that having been absent for the past few weeks reading from start to finish here and on your website made for an interesting half hour. I have to say that I find the use of the air plants very thought provoking . Musn't have too many of them otherwise I'll never finish "Gnutter's Gniche" or whatever it ends up being called
Final thought - just how long will it be before Air Plants feature on a Show Layout. At least we can all say we saw it first on Gnatterbox
_________________
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
http://gtb13.fotopic.net/
http://protos.fotopic.net/

[Steve Bennett]

I knew from the moment Andy first posted this, that resistance was going to be a waste of time, it was just a question of when it would get started. I'm taking a slightly different route and using Foamcore instead of MDF. This is not through choice, I couldnt find anything suitable and I'm too ill to go out and get some, so an old Foamcore display board came to the rescue. Instead of just two layers, I have used three, hopefully this will help to prevent any warping. The dimensions are very similar, slightly wider and slightly longer at 21" long by 8" wide and again the traverser slightly longer at 7 1/2" so that I can vary the wagons a bit. I'm also only going to have only three tracks instead of four. Not sure how much more I will get done today, I think soldering fumes are going to be too much for me at the moment. Updates as and when progress is made.


_________________
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.co.uk

[John]

Hi Andy,

I see can't seem to get the links to work, guess I'll just have to wait for the book!(LOL). Glad your brakes worked Micheal, it's been a few years since I've been to Ft. Mac Money-MacMurry

Johh

[AndyA]

The building is actually painted and it doesn't look too bad, but my camera has gone ahead to the boat so you'll just have to imagine it all for now. I think that my favourite bit of the whole saga was the look on Sue's face when the SPUD actually ran from the traverser to the main track and didn't fall off. (Of course, I kept my own astonishment to myself). It may not be perfect but I've actually finished something.

On the way home last night I I persuaded my long-suffering office manager to stop at the timber merchants and now possess enough pre-cut boards for several layouts. I intend to design the Stout and Porter Store building/scenery whilst I'm on the boat - like Steve I'll go for three tracks rather than four this time - with a two-track traverser just to make the Inglenook a little more complex.

I'm looking forward to seeing Steve's version when I get back next Sunday.

John, I can't figure out what's wrong with the links - they worked fine from the strange machine I was using on Thursday. It's probably a DNS problem, but I just can't get my head round it right now. In desperation, all I can do before I go is duplicate the pages at:

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/pd49/yucatan/traverser.html

...and the other two. There are significant problems with the pages I don't have time to fix but the text and most images seem to be there. For anyone else, this is in fact pd49.dial.pipex.com, but just resolved without any aliassing in case that's the problem. There's a way of doing that with the dsl space as well, but doubtless I'll remember it about fifteen minutes after getting onto the boat.

Sorry, best I can do right now. Perhaps someone else knows their way around pipex's servers and can help out.

regards
Andy A
_________________
Gn15: Gnot so much a scale, more a state of mind
gnine: less is the gnew more
GnTonic - enjoy irresponsibly

[Steve Bennett]

Time for an update on my progress I guess. The track is now laid and the electrics done. I have to confess to be having way too much fun playing with this little layout. While it looks like it would be very straight forward to operate, I have to tell you, it can get to be quite a challenge, maybe I just have too many wagons on it Here's a couple of snaps of how it looks so far.




Not that interesting to look at I know, hopefully that will change as time goes on. The ties/sleepers probably look a long way apart, but they wont be seen at all once the ground surface goes down as the track will be buried to the top of the rail. To this end, all the track, has a check rail along the full length, this is why I chose to handlay rather than use ready made track. Having said that, the rear track doesnt have the check rail and wont be visable at all on the finished layout.

A bit more on the traverser itself, as this is what has taken the most thinking time and fine tuning.

At first, using foamcore seemed like a great idea, as the two flat surfaces slid against each other really easily. The first problem that i came across though was that the cut edges, once inserted into the well, did bind quite alot. This was easily cured by glueing some styrene strips along the edges, I used black styrene as you can probably see in the pic (one less thing to paint). Next job was to find a way to move it, as the traverser itself will be housed inside a building, also I wanted to be able to operate from either the back or the front. To accomplish this a length of brass tube was used, with the tread from a bolt soldered into the end. A nut was then glued to each side of the traverser, so the rod can be unscrewed and inserted in the other side, as required. Job done, well not quite Every thing worked fine, until I put my heaviest loco (10 ounces)on the traverser, it suddenly became very stiff to operate. Again the cure was very simple, I placed a strip of thin Teflon material down each side of the traverser well, these are the brown strips you can see in the photo, this cured the problem and it now slides back and forward very easily.

One final thing to mention, is that of couplings. A layout of this type is really not the place to use link and pin couplings. To get the best play value out of something like this, automatic couplers of some type are pretty much essential. I'm using magnetically operated DG couplings which have a delayed action facility. The magnets are the black objects in the centre of the tracks on the traverser and from here I can spot the wagons wherever I want. Kaydee's could also be used in the same way.

Hope I havent bored you too much. Hopefully the next update will have some scenary on it, thats if I can stop playing with it for long enough .
_________________
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.co.uk