Painting figures and wagons - (13 April - New pics)

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

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Painting figures and wagons - (13 April - New pics)

Postby RichUK » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:17 am

Hi all
I am pretty sure the answers to this has already been posted, but I have had a search and can't see anything!

I've just ordered a load of stuff from Sidelines to keep me bust for the next decade!

Can anyone recommend the best product to:
a) glue the kits together
b) paint them

The only paints I currently have are Humbrol ones, but I am not sure if these are suitable to use on steve's kits.

Can anyone recommend a make/brand of paints to use, and also should I undercoat them?

Would an airbrush make it easier or as a beginner should I stick with a brush?

Any help appreciated!
Richard
Last edited by RichUK on Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Painting figures and wagons

Postby Gerry Bullock » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:51 am

RichUK wrote:Hi all
I am pretty sure the answers to this has already been posted, but I have had a search and can't see anything!

Any help appreciated!
Richard


Here's a starting place for figure painting.

As far as Locos/wagons are concerned personally I only use a brush for detailing and weathering and the paints I then use are French Acrylics from Games Workshop because they are thin and free running as compared to Artist's Acrylics.
I too old to learn the ins & outs of Air Brush technology plus you have to clean the thing. :cry:
I use Halford's Car paints, used to use grey or red oxide primer BUT now favour their Matt Black as a primer. For top coats I also use the Car Paints however sometimes I'll use the Humbrol Acrylic range sprays if colour is better.
Bear in mind that the Car aerosols will give a gloss finish which IMHO you don't want. :wink: This can be overcome with a finish spray of matt lacquer/varnish. There's none better than Testors Dullcote which can now be bought in UK - it is a tad expensive but you get what you pay for.
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:40 am

For glue, there is no contest, superglue is the best thing to use, but if you cant use it or dont want to, a 2 part epoxy should also give good results.

For painting, like Gerry, I would recommend a aerosol acrylic spray primer as a base. Then you can use whatever paint you like on top. Personally, I gave up on Humbrol enamels for most things, years ago and now use acrylics for nearly everything. The technique with acrylics is slightly different, so you may be better sticking with what you know initially.
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Postby greengiant » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:46 pm

I agree with much of what has been said.

Glue wise, can't beat Dr Mikes, available here:

http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/EDM_Model ... s_glue.htm

Humbrol enamels or various acrylics are both fine for painting the models.
I prefer to prime mine with car primer and now paint with Games Workshop acrylics.

The loco in the pic is painted with car paints, the wagon with Humbrol enamels.

Image

These wagons are from Steve's range and are brush painted with artists acrylics (I now prefer Games Workshop paints).

Image

For brushes, get a selection of the best quality sable you can find.
Size 4 is fine for stock, size 1 for figures.
Look after them and they will last you years, I have had some for over 20 years!

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:31 pm

On the subject of brushes:

Try your best to not allow paint to build up in the heel of bristles.
Easier said than done for me a lot of times. :?

Best to brush one direction if at all possible, swabbing back and forth like broom or mop wears bristle ends to a frazzle.
(brush like I say, not like I do)

Store brushes with a mind to not allowing dust to settle on them - do I have to tell you where that dust will end up?

Put them in water or cleaner only long enough to rinse out bristles.
Allowing burshes to stand on bristles in thinner lets liquid work up into heel of bristles and even end of handle under ferrule - lowers lifetime dramatically.
(the brush's lifetime, not yours)
(although, if I catch you doing that with my brushes . . . )


If a brush has a seam in the metal ferrule holding the bristles - avoid that brush like plutonium.
Unless, of course, you get your get your giggles picking itty bitty hairs out of your paint.

Painting methods are like chili, BBQ, and grandma's apple pie recipies - there's general trends but you'll get near as many answers as number of persons asked :lol:
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Postby RichUK » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:27 am

Hi all

thanks for all the replies - all a great help.

I have had a look at games warehouse and on their site is a starter set http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99179999003&orignav=300810 - Are these paints any good?

I was hoping a google search would find online shops that had some kind of starter pack with a mix of colours, but can't see anything.

As a complete new starter, is there any colours that "every modeller should have" or is it just a case of see what looks good at the shop?

Sorry for the daft questions but I don't want to make a mess of things if I can help it?

Richard

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Postby Rockley Bottom » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:37 am

Hi Forest
Well said.

This is perfect advice for the care of brushes,

Good sables looked after well will only get better with care. Pull don't push a brush when using

I use to say to students how would they like to be suck head first in a pot of water for a long time .Don'tdo it to brushes :!: :!:
Brushes do not like hot water as it softens the glue that hold the bristles.

I use slightly warm water and a mild ph neutral (used by the wife) soap for a cleaner then a final was in warm water.

All this in a perfect world :lol: :lol:

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Postby Rockley Bottom » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:52 am

Hi Richard

My local gaming shop has two types of paint . Both are excellent.
The newest type is a denser pigment and has excellent covering properties.

A small starter set could be ideal.

Stir well,

Remember colours can be mixed.
I use an old enamel plate as a palette
I have several brass strips that I use for getting paint from the pot to the plate.This keeps the paint in the pot clean. They are easy to clean after use.

work with thin coats of paint

Experiment and have fun. Happy accidents is a great teacher.

Regards

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Postby Gerry Bullock » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:11 am

I'm going to disagree with Ralph, in part, last time I bought Games Workshop Paints they were £2 each so the Starter Set is good value. :D
My reservation is that some of the colours look gaudy and they don't say what they are.
I'll sort through mine later and tell you what I use Richard.
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.

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Postby Gerry Bullock » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:25 am

Here's the colours I use from Games Workshop:
Chaos Black Skull White
Graveyard Earth Vermin Brown
Scorched Brown Desert Yellow
Bubonic Brown Terracotta
Codex Grey Shadow Grey
Brown Ink Black Ink
Yellow Ink Chestnut Ink
Dwarf Flesh Flesh Wash
I use these colours mostly for painting figures. The Earth Colours would be used for weathering rolling stock/Locos. I also use Earth Colours to paint buildings after applying base colour from a cheaper source.
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.

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Postby RichUK » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:57 pm

Thanks for all your replies...To get a better finish I think an airbrush maybe the way to go. Again, its all new to me, so can anyone recommend an airbrush starter set?

R

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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:03 am

RichUK wrote:Thanks for all your replies...To get a better finish I think an airbrush maybe the way to go. Again, its all new to me, so can anyone recommend an airbrush starter set?


No hesitation here, I can highly recommend the Badger 200 (http://tinyurl.com/234tjz) . I have been using one for 35 years and despite using so called better quality (read more expensive) from several of the leading brands, I always come back to my trusty Badger. Looked after it will last you a lifetime. Spares are easy to come by, though you will probably never need any. The one thing that does go on them (and any other airbrush) is a small washer in the nozzle, which for a genuine spare part, is not cheap, but an O ring from the valve of a disposable cigarette lighter fits perfectly.
I have used mine in many other disciplines, from technical illustrations through to painting hotrods, even used it to decorate a human body, but we had better not go there on here :) .
This is just my opinion based on my own experience, but for ease of use and suitable for beginner to professional, it's a winner.
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Postby Rockley Bottom » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:33 am

I agree with Steve, Badger know how to make reliable air brushes.
With all brushes make time to give it a good clean when you have finished,
I always stop using mine a good 15 minutes before shut off time for modelling to end.
I usually find that for large areas a can of car paint (primer) or for some body colours on models, provide the solution.

Brush painting also answers most of my painting problems, but I am often just lazy getting the air brush out of the box

Ralph

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Air Brush/Compressor

Postby Mike Lee » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:44 am

I have been thinking about getting an air brush for some time now, the Badger 200 seems a good buy :D However what is the best compressor to go with it, and are there any other accessories that are needed :?: I would hate to buy an air brush and compressor and find out I could'nt use it because I needed something else :!: It would be like having an electronic toy on christmas day and not having any batteries :( :(

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Air Brush Kit

Postby Catweasel » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:52 pm

I listened to Steve and bought a Badger starter kit (Badger Airbrush Spray Gun Model 250-3 Kit).Everything you need in one box,less paint obviously. :roll: I found this price with a quick Google.
http://www.artifolk.co.uk/catalog/produ ... -3_kit.htm
Go this route to start before investing in compressors and get a big box for a spray booth.
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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:32 pm

Well the Badger 200 set comes with everything except paint and thinners, so no worries there. It does come with an aerosol propellant, which is fine for just occasional use, but gets expensive if you use it a lot. At one time you could get refillable aerosols, but I think these have been banned now.

Cheapest air supply is a car tyre inner tube, pump it up at the local garage or with a footpump. For this you will need an adapter for the valve, which Badger have covered http://tinyurl.com/2a68ju.

If you plan on using it a lot, a compressor is a worthwhile purchase. There are a huge number of different ones on the market, from small hobby ones to full blown workshop compressors. The small hobby diaphram compressors are fine for most uses and are more civilised in the home as they fairly quiet in operation, they are more expensive though. I use a small workshop compressor with 6 Litre air reservoir which was about half the price of the cheapest hobby unit I could find and it has served me well for years, it is noisy though.
To use the airbrush with a compressor, you will need 2 additonal items, a nozzle adapter to fit on the compressor (http://tinyurl.com/2v3ymg) and a braided air hose (http://tinyurl.com/2u37ej).

Finally one accessory I wouldnt be without, is what is known as a Colour Cup. It is a small cup which fits onto the airbrush to hold the paint, rather than using the glass jars which are normally used. http://tinyurl.com/2s9ygj For the small amounts of paint we use, these are ideal. Half full, they should hold enough to paint a complete loco and for weathering, a couple of brushfulls of paint is about all that is needed and these cups will work down to the last drop of paint, which is not possible with the jars. Changing colours is quick too, remove the cup, clean it out and put the next colour in. With acrylics, this takes seconds, a simple washout under the tap will be enough to get it ready for the next colour. I really cant remember the last time I used a jar to hold paint, must be more than 20 years ago.

Hopefully this helps.
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Re: Air Brush Kit

Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:43 pm

Catweasel wrote:I listened to Steve and bought a Badger starter kit (Badger Airbrush Spray Gun Model 250-3 Kit).Everything you need in one box,less paint obviously. :roll: I found this price with a quick Google.
http://www.artifolk.co.uk/catalog/produ ... -3_kit.htm
Go this route to start before investing in compressors and get a big box for a spray booth.


Better point out, that is a mini spray gun, rather than an airbrush. It is not as versatile, but if all you want to do is paint your models with a flat colour, they will do the job very well. With practice, they can be used for weathering aswell, but are nowhere near as controllable as an airbrush. All depends on what you want to do :wink: .
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Postby Rockley Bottom » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:37 pm

My spray both is a box from the super market.

I also use an old turntable used for a television with a a board on top as a spray both turntable. This quite useful for some items where you want to spray several sides one after the other.

All this talk of air brushes makes me feel I should get mine out again :oops:

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Painting figures and wagons

Postby Bilco » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:23 pm

Not strictly for figures and wagons, but these are my 50 steps for painting models:

1. When construction complete, wash model in warm soapy water, scrubbing with a toothbrush to remove grease.

2. Before throwing warm soapy water away retrieve small detail pieces scrubbed off by over-enthusiastic application of toothbrush.

3. Experts say "Decide what colour you want to paint model and use appropriate primer". Decide want to paint it red, so find ancient spray can of red oxide car undercoat in back of garage and start to spray.

4. When ancient can proves to be nearly empty, go to car factor and buy new can.

5. Finish spraying model with undercoat, allow to dry.

6. Wake up next day determined to paint model red. Look at model. Decide to paint it green.

7. As primer now wrong colour, go to car factor, buy spray can of grey car undercoat.

8. Spray model with new undercoat. Red oxide base shows grey paint not going into awkward corner – move spray can closer … and closer.

9. Scream as paint forms drips and sags around awkward corner, frantic search turns up ancient can of cellulose thinner in back of garage, pour on rag, dab ineffectually at drips, strip off all grey primer.

10. When thinners dry on model, respray, remembering not to get too close.

11. After half-dozen passes of spray move 2 feet closer to model so paint can reach it.

12. Allow to dry.

13. Mask bodywork, spray frames with ancient can of matt black found in back of garage.

13. Find ancient spray can of green enamel paint in back of garage. Not to be caught out again, go to model shop to buy more green paint.

14. Find model shop no longer stocks that shade of green.

15. Mask frames, spray model with ancient green paint - quickly, before it runs out.

16. When paint dry photograph model, prompted by subconscious fear that it might not look that good again.

17. Decide to try weathering with acrylic paints.

18. Apply thin wash of rust acrylic thinned with water – paint forms blobs – wipe off with kitchen roll.

19. Consult expert. He recommends car windscreen wash as thinning agent – go to Poundstretcher, buy 2 litres (only £1.50 – bargain, might even use in car).

20. Thin rust acrylic with windscreen wash, apply wash – paint forms blobs – wipe off with kitchen roll.

21. Add drop of washing up liquid to windscreen wash, thin rust acrylic with mixture, apply wash.

22. Mixture forms small rust-coloured bubbles all over model – frantically try to wipe off before acrylic dries.

23. Repeat until weathering overdone.

24. Decide to abandon acrylic and go for enamel applied with airbrush.

25. Find ancient tin of Humbrol track colour in back of garage, thin with white spirit, fill jar of airbrush, spray very light dusting upwards from bottom of model. Express surprise that it worked so well.

26. Find ancient tin of Humbrol indeterminate grey in back of garage. Paint has consistency of Pollyfiller.

27. Find ancient can of enamel thinners in back of garage, pour some in tin, stir thoroughly for 15 minutes.

28. Get bored, pour some of resulting liquid into jar of airbrush, thin with more enamel thinners.

29. Airbrush blocks up. Discover jar full of lumps of pigment in thinners – throw away.

30. Thoroughly clean airbrush.

31. Mix more of grey paint with white spirit in belief that it was all enamel thinners fault.

32. Spray light dusting downwards from top of model.

33. Scream as airbrush splutters and deposits sprinkling of grey dots over model.

34. Rub grey dots off with cotton bud soaked in white spirit.

35. Notice cotton bud has also removed some of the better weathering.

36. Dismantle airbrush and wash thoroughly in white spirit.

37. Blow though nozzle, get mouthful of white spirit, spend next hour trying to spit taste out.

38. Decide to try weathering powders. Find pack of ancient weathering powders in back of garage.

39. Apply black powder with cotton bud to try to replace good weathering rubbed off in step 34.

40. Decide enough weathering, spray model with Testor's Dullcote.

41. Notice black weathering powder now in places where not wanted – and sealed by Dullcote.

42. Apply rust weathering powder with cotton bud. Looks awful, try to rub off with cotton bud – rust powder spreads.

43. Decide to use pastels for weathering – find ancient stick of grey pastel in back of garage.

44. Rub cotton bud against pastel, transfer to model.

45. Pleased with result, spray with Dullcote.

46. Notice Dullcote has turned grey powder clear, so complete waste of time.

47. Decide to use ancient silver crayon to put show wear on corners and edges.

48. Rub crayon on edges and corners. Notice that thick tip of crayon has put unwanted silver lines on adjacent surfaces.

49. Repeat steps 39 to 46 as required.

50. Photograph model and post to GnATTERbox.

Worked for me!
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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:29 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
and that was the shortened version :lol:
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Painting Figures and Wagons

Postby Bilco » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:45 pm

You can have the full version if you want Image
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Postby Simon Andrews » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:35 pm

Anyone using the Games Workshop range of paints may also be intrested in this range by Foundry Minatures for shading etc http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/paint/index.asp

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Image

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Postby Gerry Bullock » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:14 pm

Simon Andrews wrote:Anyone using the Games Workshop range of paints may also be intrested in this range by Foundry Minatures for shading etc http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/paint/index.asp

Simon.

Looks better value Simon, only disadvantage is that it has to ordered.
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.

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Postby scott b » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:50 pm

Back to the airbrushes, I friend who is into airbrush painting, heroic stances, skulls and skantily clad damsels, says the way to quickly clean your equipment ( airbrush, smart a_s) is to get one of those sonic jewelry cleaners and just put all the bits in after you paint and he says its faster and cleaner and much less headache. I have yet to try it but if there is a easy way of doing something this is the guy and he paints everyday.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:27 am

scott b wrote:Back to the airbrushes, I friend who is into airbrush painting, heroic stances, skulls and skantily clad damsels, says the way to quickly clean your equipment ( airbrush, smart a_s) is to get one of those sonic jewelry cleaners and just put all the bits in after you paint and he says its faster and cleaner and much less headache. I have yet to try it but if there is a easy way of doing something this is the guy and he paints everyday.


Novel idea, not heard that one before. A bit over the top for what most would need, but probably a good idea for those fiddly double action airbrushes.

This is another reason I recommend the Badger 200, it is dead easy to clean. A lot will depend on paints used, but if you stick to acrylics, cleaning is no problem at all. The most important thing to remember, is not to leave it with paint inside, if you need to take a break from spraying, say to prepare the next pieces to be painted, flush it through with thinner (water for acrylics) so the paint doesnt dry inside it.

I'm sure the myths about cleaning airbrushes, puts a lot of people off using them, it neednt, they are not difficult to keep clean, just take care not to let paint dry inside them and if you should get a build up of paint over time, a simple soak in a suitable solvent overnight, then cleaning with a cotton bud, will bring it back to new condition.
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