Simplicity Sidings

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:27 pm

Colin Peake wrote:I must be posh, I used ready made corrugated stuff on the building I built for Ambasadors. Really must write an update!


:lol: not going to comment about the posh bit :lol:
But yes, you should write an update :wink:
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Postby gfadvance » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:44 pm

Completely accidentally I may have got round the problem Steve highlighted about the cut-outs acting as a "sump"
After, and for once I did think it through, I had laid the track and checked that every thing worked i.e my solder joints! I sealed the wires into the channels with a hot glue gun so all the open ended corrugations are actually now sealed with the glue - so I should be OK but just in case I will run another fillet of glue around the channels tonight
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Postby Steve Bennett » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:49 pm

Good idea Gordon, that should work, lets hope so, be a real shame if it went wrong now.
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Postby David James » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:01 pm

Cool technique for painting flex Steve!

Something for you to try sometime in regards to removing the paint from the top of the rails.

If you take a bit of paper towel and moisten it with household oil...just a spot...and rub that on the top of the rail prior to spraying there is no need to worry about how long to wait.

You can let the paint set for a few days and when you want you can go back and wipe the tops off with a bit of towel clean as a whistle.

The oil prevents the paint from adhering to the rail....needless to say but I will anyway...use just enough oil to moisten the top of the rail but not so it would run down the sides.

Works great!!

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Postby Steve Bennett » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:40 pm

REQUEST

While I more than welcome questions, could I request you ask them here on the forum please guys. Quite simply, my email box is overflowing and many are asking the same or similar questions that I could answer together with a single post on here. Dont worry, nobody here is going to think any question is silly or stupid, plus with many things, there are several ways of doing it, plus others can add their input on here aswell, resulting in a better way of doing things. We can all learn that way :) .

I really dont want to put anybody off, so ask away, but here rather than by email. Thanks :wink:
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Postby chris stockdale » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:19 pm

Steve Bennett wrote:While I more than welcome questions, could I request you ask them here on the forum please guys. Quite simply, my email box is overflowing



To use the American vernacular:

Steve, you are just like, Soooo popular.



:D :wink:


cheers

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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:23 pm

Jon Randall wrote: How do you cut your rail :?: The only thing I have to cut rail is a mini hacksaw and I struggle to stop the rail pulling out of the chairs, any advice will be welcome.


Hi Jon,
I also use a small hacksaw - I also picked up a small plastic mitre box from a cheapie hardware store cost was about $4 Aussie. If you hold the track close to where you are cutting, both sides of the cut are supported against the side of the mitre box. This reduces the tendency to tear the track out of its mounts.

Some additional suggestions:
1 - see if you can find a finer blade for your small hacksaw - the coarser the pitch of the teeth, the greater is the tendency for the blade to snag and drag the rail. A "standard" hacksaw blade is way too coarse for this type of work but fine for chewing through 3mm steel.
2 - as you cut the rate of progress downwards changes with the cross section, ease off the downward pressure on the hacksaw and let the blade cut at its own rate. Where your blade is catching is probably at the transition from the narrow flange to the broader web at the foot of the rail.

As an additional bonus the finer the teeth on the blade you can get also reduces the amount of dress up afterwards, but it is done at the cost of a few more strokes to get through the rail. I hope that this helps.
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Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:08 am

David James wrote:If you take a bit of paper towel and moisten it with household oil...just a spot...and rub that on the top of the rail prior to spraying there is no need to worry about how long to wait.


Thanks David
I often use WD40 for the same thing, but never thought of oil, will give it a try on the next one. Thanks.
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More on cassettes and uncoupling.

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:09 pm

Nothing more to report on the layout construction, as I havent made any more progress. I have though been playing and have made up some more cassettes, which is partly why I'm adding this piece.

If you build one of these little layouts, you will soon come to realise that coupling and uncoupling are a major part of it's play value, unless you just want to run something back and forth. To get the most fun, I believe that some form of automatic, or semi-automatic coupling and uncoupling are a real bonus. A small project like this mini layout is also ideal to experiment with different types of coupling to see how you like them, without the time and expense of equipping a larger layout.

Now anybody who has been around here for any length of time, will know my preferred type is the DG coupling (more HERE}, which is fully automatic with a delayed action facility. Ideal on something like this. I also want to have a play with Kadee couplings aswell, so have started to take steps in that direction too. A big bonus with delayed action couplings like the DG and Kadee types, is that you can uncouple, then push your wagons/cars to where you want on the layout and the ideal place to do that on this setup, is on the cassette. Thats very handy as you can have different cassettes, set up to use different couplings, without having anything devoted to them on the scenic part of the layout itself. Here are both types, the cassette for the DG coupling at the front, along with the tiny 6mm diameter button magnet I use with them and behind is the Kadee one with a standard between the rails magnet in place.

Image

Image

I hope you can see the tiny magnet installed in the front cassette. To fit it was simplicity itself. A 6mm diameter drill bit was used to make a hole in the top surface of the cassette, between the second and third sleeper. This resulted in a tight force fit and the magnet is simply pushed in. Just hope I never need to get it out, I think I would need to rip the cassette apart to retieve it :) . You might also note, I have added a shim of thin card on this cassette. The polystyrene used in the centre, turned out to be slightly thinner than that used on the layout, so the shim is to raise the track to align correctly. simple, but it works perfectly.

The Kadee magnet on the other is not fixed properly yet, simply pinned in place until I can find my Kadee gauge to get the height correct.

Of course there are many other types of couplings that could be used and I'm sure some will already have their own preferences. If they have a delayed action facility, uncoupling on the cassette, is going to be the best way to go. Those without delated action and that uncouple using ramps, will obviously need provision on the layout itself, I will leave you to work those types out yourself :) .
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Postby Trevor Coburn » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:26 pm

Steve, those button magnets will also work with K-D's.
Place one about one third under the rail foot on one side, then place another under the oppersit rail slightly in front . I have used these extensivly on my 0e layout, the bigest problem is finding them. :!:
Unfortunatly I cant get to the layout to take any photos.
I also found that using the full lenght K-D magnets was a problem with steel axled stock. The magnet 'catches' the wagon :shock: . (This also happens with H0 frieght cars )
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Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:44 pm

Hi Trevor
Yes, you are right, a pair of the button magnets will work with Kadee's. I think there might even be an old thread about using them.

Shouldnt be too difficult to source them (once you get back home :) }. I normally get them from 009 Specialist's Meridian Models (or Parkside Dundas) who sell them in packs of 10 for use with their Greenwich Couplings. I'm pretty sure they are also available from Maplins, but not checked, as I would rather get them from within the hobby, even if they cost a few pennies more :wink: .
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:49 am

Dear Gn15 Crew,

There is a recent thread that coverd many of the issues surrounding "automatic coupler selection" choice here

http://www.forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=4291

FWIW, I just discovered that using modified Kadee #5 centring springs works a treat on US outline HO bogie stock to add "just enough drag" to avoid "runby-accidental uncoupling" issues with Kadees, assist in correct action of the "delayed uncoupling" feature, and eliminate the "attracted to metal weight" issues with Athearn/MDC style cars. For more details, drop me a line off-thread.
Happy Modelling,
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Simplicity Sidings

Postby Catweasel » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:20 pm

You can also get the Button Magnets from here.3rd from bottom of page
http://www.nigellawton009.com/PayPalTrucks.html
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Postby gfadvance » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:10 pm

As Colin has definitly got the corrugated iron look sorted on his layout, and as Steve mentioned at the start of this thread that he would be covering printed backdrops I have been trying to sort what I'm going to do on mine.
Don't want to steal Steves thread so these are my thoughts on what I would like achieve, these mini layouts look ideal for trying out new techniques as you are always working on a relatively small area.

So ,in no particular order, ground work -typical dirty look with bit of natuaral growth and puddles ( think scrapyard ). Brick walls, distressed/worn, worn/weathered wood, window frames again weathered, maybe some iron railings, guttering and down pipes,etc

Most of these I have tried in other scales but not Gn15, and as usual is this world there will be nothing really new and a lot of the above have been covered in other threads scattered through this site.So I suppose what I am trying to say is if there anything on this list which appeals and people want to see some step by step pictures to add to this threads' learning process let me know - presuming that Steve doesn't object and I try to live up to his presentation standards;-

So as progress is made I will post and see if of any interest to people
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simplicity sidings

Postby richard andrews » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:27 pm

Great idea Steve, I have been thinking of building another small layout,think i will give this a go. on track cutting, i use a small hacksaw with the track held in a vice, cutting one rail at a time.
I have read about using the red,black grey spray to weather the track now i have seen it, i will give it a go. :D :D :D
will it be ready for Walton? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
can't wait for the next phase.
Regards Richard

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Postby Steve Bennett » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:32 pm

gfadvance wrote:So as progress is made I will post and see if of any interest to people


Please do Gordon, the more info the better, though I do know how long it takes to write these things up, so dont expect you will want to go into as much depth as this thread :) .
I like the sound of your ideas, a good bit of dirt and grime, should be a complete contrast to mine :lol: .
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Re: simplicity sidings

Postby Steve Bennett » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:37 pm

Richard Andrews wrote:will it be ready for walton? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
can't wait for the next phase.


Oh yes, it should be finished well in time for Walton , I'm hoping to get it finished by next weekend, but wether I succeed remains to be seen.

Next instalment should be up later this evening, just sorting the photos :)
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Low relief backdrop

Postby Steve Bennett » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:58 pm

LOW RELIEF BACKDROP

Before starting this, I had better come clean and admit, that this wasnt in the original scheme, but as time has gone on, for the sake of the demonstration, it has become more attractive :) . I can always go back to the original concept at a later time.

With that in mind, this is now going to be very similar to my original Vanguard Works, but hopefully with improvements, based on my previous experiences. This building, though still just a printed backdrop, is more solid and I hope less prone to warping. The materials here are a thin card shell, with a laminated corrugated card centre, which should in theory, be very solid and stable. The reason for the card shell, rather than sticking the print directly to the corrugated is based on previous experiments. The glue applied to corrugated card, shrinks as it dries and causes an undulating surface, fine if the corrugations line up with the brick courses, but not much chance of that happening :wink: .

EDIT : Since writing this, a better method of constructing the card/ corrugated shell for the building has been found, this is covered later in the thread ( http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?p=57126#57126)

So here are the first pieces, three layers of corrugated card cut from a cardboard box have been laminated together and just in front, not yet attached, is the piece of card for the front face of the structure.

Image

At this stage, I then attached the front facing card, then added the edges, in a similar way to constructing the layout base.
It was only after, that a slightly better way occurred to me. One of the problems with corrugated card, is that it is rarely a uniform thickness, plus when you cut it, no matter how careful, the pressure of cutting will narrow the thickness. Next time I use this method, I will make up the front face and the sides first, like a tray, then put the corrugated core in after. You live and learn :) .

The next step was to prepare the prints to cover it. Here you see the first piece ready to apply. Note that I have already scored and bent the end to go around the side, this will aid location for glueing.

Image

You may already have a favourite way of attaching paper to card, Something like photomount spray will do the job equally as well, but I'm sticking ( :oops: Oh dear) with the same PVA that I use for the rest of the construction. These pics are almost the same as from cionstructing the base, it is the same method almost. First apply the glue to the card.

Image

Then spread it out evenly,thinly and right to the edges of the card. You should just about see a light pencil line on the right. This is where the first printed sheet will come to and you want to carry the glue over the line to ensure the edges of the paper are stuck.

Image

Next apply a thin layer of glue in the same way to the printed paper, you ideally want a very thin layer on this and need to work fairly fast to avoid the paper getting too wet from the glue and deforming. Dont apply any glue to the folded end which will form the sidewall at this stage. Now line the paper up using the folded end and the bottom edge of the card, like so.

Image

Then using a paper towel or tissue, work your way up, smoothing the paper onto the card as you go. Using two hands, rather than holding a camera helps here :lol: smooth it down with one hand while holding the paper up, letting it drop as you smooth it on. Hopefully it will go on looking something like this.

Image

Note the foldover a the left, this we will come back to.

Now to get the second print on. Prepare in the same way, applying the glue to both card, then paper. As we have a reference from the first piece, butt the second up against it first, lining up the brick courses, then smooth it down as before, but work from the join on the left and work toward the right.

Image

Before fixing the end walls, take a sharp knife and trim along the top edge of the wall. I did forget to mention, the print was approximately one brickcourse higher than needed, to allow a nice clean edge, once trimmed off.

Image

Finally, the sidewalls are now glued down.

Image

Once the glue has set, the excess will be trimmed in the same way as the top of the wall, but for now, it helps to stand it up for a photo to be taken :)

Image

Well that is this part done for now, next are a couple of end walls using the same or very similar methods. Off to work I go :wink:
Last edited by Steve Bennett on Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jon Randall » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:54 pm

Very effective Steve.
I look forward to seeing the walls on the layout.
When you've finished we will have to have a competition to guess the weight :shock:
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Postby dr5euss » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:34 pm

Just found another source for the magnets at the 4D Model Shop...

Link

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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:25 am

Jon Randall wrote:When you've finished we will have to have a competition to guess the weight :shock:


:lol: That will be interesting, I have no idea what it weighs now, but it is getting heavier (relatively :) ) with all this cardboard going on it. I never would have thought to weigh it, but if it will fit on my scales, I will when it is done.
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:38 am

Dear Steve,

OK, here's your weight benchmark,

a 2' X 4' X 2'tall all-foamcore "procenium" module,
with integral coved backdrop/roof,
AND 3 X 12VAC Halogen lighting rig Built-In

= 3 kilos :shock: :wink:

Image

Image
Happy Modelling,

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Yet more brickwork.

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:29 pm

BRICKWORK CONTINUED

Before moving onto the brick walls which are going be fitted to each end of the layout, a little more on the backdrop building. Because the groundwork on the layout is going to be built up, the building needs to be raised above the board slightly. The main reason for this is so that the bottom of the door doesnt end up underground :) . An added bonus in this case, is it will also raise it above the wires from the track which will go under it. Very simple method used here, a strip of leftover 2mm thick card from building the base board, is cut to the size of the base of the building, then stuck to the rear edge of the board, with a cutout for the wires, in this case.

Image

Then with the building test fitted in position.

Image

Ok, on with the other walls. As mentioned in the previous part, I thought a simple tray from thin card, to then fit a laminate of corrugated card inside, would be easier to work, than trying to clad it. I was right, it is a lot easier and builds up neater and possibly even quicker. Another advantage is the corrugated doesnt have to be cut very accurately, its main task being to stop the sides of the wall from bowing. Here is the tray mady up from 1mm card from the back of a pad of paper, together with the laminated corrugated.

Image

Now with the corrugated glued into the tray, note it is not an exact fit.

Image

Now with the other side of the wall attached, one very solid structure.

Image

Final step is to then clad in brickpaper as described earlier.

Image

You may be wondering about the extra piece under the wall, this is simply to locate it on the side of the baseboard. I am hoping to make the building and walls removeable as a single unit, which make working on the groundwork easier, wether I succeed remains to be seen :roll: .

Next, to the walls at the opposite/fiddleyard end. These were made in the same way, except they were much smaller pieces. Here they are completed and attached again to an endpiece to locate them.

Image

The L shaped section, was made as 2 seperate boxes, clad in brickpaper and then glued together, the join isnt really visable from normal viewing angles and it is a lot easier to apply the btickpaper. The gateposts shown in the photo are only temporary, having tried them, I think some bigger timber is needed, as the gates are going to be quite big.

With all the walls done, I guess I had better show all the components in situ on the layout :wink: so here you go.

Image

Image

One last one with a loco and wagons to give a sense of proportion, yes it is quite cramped :lol: .

Image

I guess the next part will be the groundwork, though I am tempted to put the capping on the top of the walls to finish them off, or maybe do the gates, the ones shown here are just card with lines on :) , we shall see :) .
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Re: Yet more brickwork.

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:45 pm

Steve Bennett wrote:I guess the next part will be the groundwork, though I am tempted to put the capping on the top of the walls to finish them off, or maybe do the gates, . . .


Here's a plan:
1. cap the long walls
2. do the gates, thinking how wall caps will go
2.1 but refrain from permanently attaching gates
3. cap the short walls - can then adjust caps to work with gates
3.1 set gates aside
4. do groundwork, thinking how swing of gates will impact groundwork there
5. attach gates
6. drive trains

Work? :D
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Re: Yet more brickwork.

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:16 pm

Willow Creek Traction wrote:6. drive trains

Work? :D


Might just go straight to number 6 and think about the rest while I'm playing :lol:
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