Duckwall Flats - A Gnine story

G scale on 9mm track? Are you mad? If so, this is the forum for you.

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Duckwall Flats - A Gnine story

Postby henrix72se » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:45 pm

Hi Folks,

Now since my Borkum Railyard is in "principal" finished (only details remains..), I thought I should bite into something completely different than 78n18.

What would be completely different, if not Gnine .. :D

So I invented the name Duckwall Flats and a quick-n-dirty plan for a combined time-saver and oval for 9mm gauge. Mostly for Gnine which I never tried before, but also as a way to be able to run HOe vehicles I keep in boxes.

Here is the picture which got me started on the hole thing - the Eggerbahn demo layout ;

Image

And here is how I plan to use it ;

Image

It is intended to be basically the same, but with a little timeSaver in the middle. I plan to make mine about 50 * 120cm, a bit wider to get room for the timeSaver.

In 78n18 indoors you plan, build, build and build again from complete scratch or almost, take photos and go on with the next project...
Also, if you actually do any shunting slash running, it is doomed to be limited .. at least in most homes (including ours).

With Gnine I want to - plan shortly (already done), build from kits or at least most of the time, have really LONG trains with maaaany wagons, maybe even about 10-15 of them and then, RUN SOME TRAINS .. :D

---

That said, I have not ONE Gnine vehicle today, so it has to be some HOe to start with, but my question to you folks out there who do some Gnine from time to time, what's available now when Steve is not feeling totally Ok. Except Steve's wonderful creations, what else is there ?

/Henrik
I build Estate, Industrial and Military Light Railways in Fn18 (1/20) scale - http://Laurell.Today/

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Postby henrix72se » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:40 pm

For example, how complicated is it to re-gauge some of the Gn15 wagons I already have ? It would be a quick start. The Wasp loco for example, should work to with just another motor-chassi.

This, the SL300, anyone tried to re-gauge that to 9mm ??

Image

/Henrik
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Postby rockershovel » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:21 am

I'd suggest that the actual effect of such a drastic re-gauging would be a top-heavy and unrealistic appearance.

broadly speaking, rolling stock for gauges between 30'' and 36'' are of similar sizes, although 36'' gauge stock tends to have larger loading gauges and higher running speeds.

24'' gauge stock is noticeably smaller, with 18'' gauge being similar to the smaller 24'' sizes and normally only used for specific locations where very tight radii are the ruling consideration, or for mine and tunnel tramways where the loading gauge may be exceptionally small.

15" gauge is really in the miniature category, with locos in the RH&DR or R&ER style, or sit-in locos like the W&WLR Garratt. These seem to be generally in the 15" to 10.25'' range, although I understand the Scarbporough one is 20''. I'd reckon 18" is the smallest gauge using a standing driver in a ''conventional'' position, apart from lines like Duffield which was really built as an exercise in reasoning from the designer's conclusions, and never copied to any significant extent.

There are a lot of layouts on here using very small diesel and gas-mech locos representing industrial tramways of various descriptions, but in a long career of heavy field engineering I've never seen a real railway built to a gauge less than 18'' .. oh ok, I found this one http://woldswaylavender.co.uk/news/index.php?s=railway which appears to be 7.25'' gauge and 150m in length . They seem to be building a steam loco for the tourist trade.
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Postby henrix72se » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:30 am

Well, the Storrs Bridge Mine was only 400mm gauge and 9mm gauge * 1:24 scale makes 216mm - about half ...

I know that, but what mine tub to use for G9 ? .. Not much else exist.. besides this is for fun, not replicating real life. The other mine tub Steve makes is even bigger.

/Henrik
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Postby chris stockdale » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:39 am

Henrik,

Regauging? I guess we are once again in 'it depends' territory. Certainly the likes of Alan Keef occasionally regauge 2' locos down to as little as 12 1/4".

Equally, that wagon is only 30mm wide so the width/gauge ratio on 9mm track is 3.33, perhaps about as far as is generally recommended in the real world (whatever that is). But then, I always think:

a. that the Vale of Rheidol locos were eight feet wide on 1' 11 1/2" gauge, thus pushing the ratio just over the 4 to 1.

and

b. It's your railway, If it looks right to you then built it and be damned. Knowing this group someone will come up with a real world example in due course anyway...

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:34 pm

Chris Stockdale wrote:Knowing this group someone will come up with a real world example in due course anyway...


Or, someone in the real world will happen upon here, see it, then conclude "Well, if they are modeling it, then it must be okay to do."
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby henrix72se » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:30 am

Got a reply from Steve yesterday, he still had some G9 stuff left so I ordered vehicles from this page (sidelines Gnine).

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=2685

/Henrik
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Postby mad gerald » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:01 pm

Hej Henrik,

what H0- stuff do you intend to use - especially regarding the loco ... ?

I suggest i. e. having a look at this guy's work - a 10,25" private kinda railway in his garden ... http://www.audlin.co.uk/ and self-built wagons and loco ...

I suppose, you read the other G9-threads, like this one http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=4698 ... for example?

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Postby henrix72se » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:38 pm

mad gerald wrote:Hej Henrik,
what H0- stuff do you intend to use - especially regarding the loco ... ?

I suggest i. e. having a look at this guy's work - a 10,25" private kinda railway in his garden ... http://www.audlin.co.uk/ and self-built wagons and loco ...

I suppose, you read the other G9-threads, like this one http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=4698 ... for example?

Hi Gerald, many thinks for tips! Yes Barnes Railway is a wonderful piece of art, not just a model railway.

This my adventure into G9 is (hopefully) meant to be uncomplicated, so I will most likely NOT go into any advanced options - meaning, using what I can find and made up what I can not .. :D

Got a second reply from Steve, so in a not to distant future I will have a couple of vehicles from the Sidelines G9 range to play with. Except one motor-bogie Steve had left, I will order more Bull-Ant's for the others.

-------

I got a question for you and anyone who got an idea, how steep can a G9 track be ? I am making an overpass on my layout, see below and I want a sitting figure to get under, but not much more.

/Henrik

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:43 pm

henrix72se wrote:I got a question for you and anyone who got an idea, how steep can a G9 track be ?

Thing to do is if you already have the rolling stock you are going to use, then test that specific train, because it will depend on traction of any given loco plus weight and rolling resistance of the given cars.

Quick Way to do so -
Take a piece of that long track there in front of layout.
Take one of them boards stacked behind layout.
Place track on board.
Run power to track.
Hold track at different angles by propping up one end.
Drive your train up to see what it can take.

That's what I do.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby henrix72se » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:51 pm

will do as soon as I get them, thanks

/Henrik
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Postby mad gerald » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:22 am

Hej Henrik,

henrix72se wrote:[I got a question for you and anyone who got an idea, how steep can a G9 track be ? I am making an overpass on my layout, see below and I want a sitting figure to get under, but not much more.


... hmmm, asking for suggestions reaching a "higher ground" ...? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd suggest a (hidden) kinda "spiral staircase" to raise the tracks up the "next level" - you'll need some more tracks but you get less gradient, so you could use almost any loco ...

EDIT: ... but your layout plan seems not to take this possibility into consideration?

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Postby henrix72se » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:18 pm

mad gerald wrote:Hej Henrik,

henrix72se wrote:[I got a question for you and anyone who got an idea, how steep can a G9 track be ? I am making an overpass on my layout, see below and I want a sitting figure to get under, but not much more.


... hmmm, asking for suggestions reaching a "higher ground" ...? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd suggest a (hidden) kinda "spiral staircase" to raise the tracks up the "next level" - you'll need some more tracks but you get less gradient, so you could use almost any loco ...

EDIT: ... but your layout plan seems not to take this possibility into consideration?


"spiral staircase" .. :wink: sounds like overdoing it a bit ..

I only need to pass over the track in the upper left corner on last photo. I know I call it Duckwall Flats, but I want at least "some" levelling so I got the idea to let the mine entrance to be outside the loop and the track go under the loop to reach the tracks in the middle. Since the track under the loop is part of the "TimeSaver", I didn't want those to go down in level, else the overpass could be much less gradiant.

/Henrik
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Postby henrix72se » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:20 pm

My order from Steve came a few days ago. I had great fun assembling first kits.
Here is a photo with a 7/8in figure as comparison - a bit of difference :D.

As my wife sad "Ohhh, how cute" ... :wink:

/Henrik

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Postby Moronguhl » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:26 pm

Heh, got some of the mining tubs myself in 7mm scale. They are very dinky and cute!
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We're gonna need a little rolling stock...and a lot of luck!

I used to have a project link here until the thread was deleted... :(

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Postby henrix72se » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:55 pm

Moronguhl wrote:Heh, got some of the mining tubs myself in 7mm scale. They are very dinky and cute!

Hi Christian,
I saw it was a while since you updated your thread. Will you have some time for your railway during xmas ?

/Henrik
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Postby Moronguhl » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:42 pm

Hey Henrik - yeah it's been a while hasn't it! I've been working away though, mostly on a chassis kit DCC conversion that has been taxing me quite a lot. I've asked for railway store vouchers for Christmas though so I'll be picking up a job lot of track and point motors so I can get laying the track rather than working slowly on the stock.

I've been focused on the loco as I'd invested a fair amount of money in it, but I will be aiming to get track laid in the early months of this year. I've three locos in the works too so I may well start a separate loco thread.

Thanks for the interest Henrik, good luck with your new stock. :D
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I used to have a project link here until the thread was deleted... :(

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Postby Adrian » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:54 am

G'day Henrik

Regarding the gradient for your trains......remember that if the bottom track goes down as well as the top track going up the gradient can be halved for the same clearance over the same distance.

I do realise from your photos that it is probably a little late to change the baseboard at this time.....but it may be a useful bit of information in the future.

Have a constructive Christmas holiday.
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Postby henrix72se » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:03 am

Hi Adrian,

I did some tests this weekend and realized the track has to be more elevated than I want to (to get a sitting figure inunder), so the little bridge will be for a creek instead and the tracks has to be shortened enough to fit a run-around track in the middle.

The mine entrance will instead be on the front sidetrack.

As you just suggested, I will raise the hole 'base level' so the mine entrance can be lowered while the left loop can be raised above it.

/Henrik
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Postby henrix72se » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:44 pm

Got a bit further with the assembly. Almost looks like different scales ...

/Henrik

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Postby henrix72se » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:05 pm

My coupler pockets I ordered from Steve finally arrived today, so I finished last assembly and added last paint needed. Only minor touch-ups remains, so I started with the foam country. It looks a bit strange now.. :D , but will be ok when I added the cloth to it and some paint.

I need to ask something, I have a colour LaserJet printer, but I do not know how to use it in this case. I want to make a label for each side of the tank wagon with the text "Diesel", but can't use normal 80g paper I guess..? is there some kind of "film" I can use for a laser printer ?

/Henrik

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:47 am

What color lettering?

There are several options - a couple companies have waterslide decal material which can be printed on.
A quick Google for decal paper laser printer got this for example http://www.decalpaper.com/category-s/3.htm

Another option is to print on regular paper then carefully sand thinner from back. Glue on with thin coat of craft glue.
That method is often used for signs/posters on fences and buildings.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby henrix72se » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:10 am

http://www.decalpaper.com/category-s/3.htm

this one was amazing! there is a short video showing the process on this page. sorry, I should have looked myself, but I was so sure there was a common way of doing it here on the gbox..

many thanks for the tip, I must try this ! I did my lesson and checked around, the prices really do differ .. plus that if not inside europe, I also need to consider customs added to the price.

/Henrik
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Postby henrix72se » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:14 am

a bit more progress on the foam country side..

/Henrik

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Postby joe gilmartin » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:37 am

Henrik.......
Great job ,your moving along so quickly
makes me jealous .........:oops:
I should return to work on my layout

Again great!

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